Author Topic: How reporting the war has changed  (Read 8018 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2006, 02:57:15 PM »
<<Do you think of this [that "record tax generating Fed revenues" drowned in record Fed debt] as a fact or an opinioin?>>

It's my opinion - - a metaphorical way of stating that whatever increases in  Fed tax revenues were generated by Bush policies that stimulated corporate growth (which I think is what sirs was trying to say) were of little significance compared to the gigantic waste of national treasure reflected in the half-trillion dollar deficit.  (BTW, I think also that you and sirs might want to consider what portion of corporate growth was due to wages and benefits of various kinds being snatched away from American workers.)


<<What was the Debt as a proportion of the GNP ten years ago , and what is the percentage now>>

I have absolutely no idea and I'm always leery of making those kind of comparisons because the vast majority of the GNP winds up in private hands, it's not as if it were a government resource that the Feds can always dip into at will - - and if they DO dip into it, its owners are going to scream bloody murder.

_JS

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2006, 03:39:04 PM »
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That's one opinion.  Another is that there have been cycles of improved control & countering insurgent attacks, along with signs of ever increasing Iraqi autonomy, with cycles of poor control and increased fatalities at the hands of insurgents.  More of the former than the latter, but currently we're in a down cycle

Oh really? It is cyclical, is it?

So, has one ever been able to safely drive a non-armoured vehicle from the airport to the green zone in Baghdad?

After three years, can Iraqis count on sustained electric power and clean running water?

Is it safe to conduct business in a marketplace in Baghdad, Tikrit, Ramadi?

Have those been cyclical as well?
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sirs

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #17 on: October 25, 2006, 04:02:58 PM »
Oh really? It is cyclical, is it?

Yes, that's another opinion, just as yours was 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2006, 04:05:06 PM »
It doesn't seem to be a valid opinion. Or do you have some evidence to indicate otherwise?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2006, 04:10:37 PM »
It doesn't seem to be a valid opinion. Or do you have some evidence to indicate otherwise?

That would be yet another opinion about the validity.  And my evidence are the observations you've used to promote a 24/7 blackhole of misery opinion called Iraq
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #20 on: October 25, 2006, 04:20:36 PM »
Opinions, Sirs, can be anything. What separates them is logic and evidence.

Nowhere do I say that Iraq is a "blackhole of misery." I do believe it has been incompetently handled by this administration, which is a view many hold and can be supported by evidence. You're attempting to define my view.

Now, do you have any evidence for your cyclical view of Iraq?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Amianthus

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2006, 04:46:57 PM »
You have to accept the fact that there are good and bad Presidents.  Bush just happens to be a bad one, one of the worst.  Deal with it.

Thank you for your opinion. I disagree.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2006, 11:43:52 PM »
Opinions, Sirs, can be anything. What separates them is logic and evidence.  Nowhere do I say that Iraq is a "blackhole of misery." I do believe it has been incompetently handled by this administration, which is a view many hold and can be supported by evidence. You're attempting to define my view.  Now, do you have any evidence for your cyclical view of Iraq?

No, you never said "blackhole of misery".  The innuendo though was about as unidirectional as it can get however.   You've outlined as incompotent with your selected views and evidence to bolster that opinion.  I can find a myriad of views that though mistakes were made along the way, the acknowledgement that war is rarely smooth.  and despite that, we have a new democratic country, with its own Consitution, as put together by Iraqis who voted in their own representatives.  Do I have to go into how many lives we lost, how long it took for us to get our country up & running? I realize how in today's day & age, we Americans have the attention span of a knat.  And I realize the effectiveness of 24/7 doom & gloom reporting highlighting every possible thing that can go wrong, while minimizing ANY substantive successes.  That combination is going to make Bush's poll #'s go down.  That combination is going to perceive Iraq is embroiled in a civil war, and want change now.  That combination is going to make Bush modify his message, to try and educate the folks that "stay the course" does not equal "we're not going to do anything different, and we're going to be there forever". 

As far as "evidence" of cyclical view, I can simply reference monthly military casualty reports.  They would go up when violence flared, and they'd go down, when we had the upper hand.  As high as 141 in 11/04 dropping down to 33 Feb of this year.  Iraqi #'s are harder to nail down, and concedingly they have gone up significantly in the last few months, but they were below 1000 in June, over 1000 March - May, and again were below 1000 at the beginning of '06.  Point being the #'s didn't consistently go up.  They were episodic month after month after month after month.  I can also reference press coverage, which included wall-to-wall coverage when the casualties were high, and significant decrease in the reporting of Iraq, when events were unfolding in a positive manner, which included the significant decrease in insurgent activity during the last pair elections, when the Suunis actually took part in the last election, and when the Constitution was passed. 

Thus the opinion of a cyclical phenomenon is validated with observation, views, & evidence
« Last Edit: October 26, 2006, 02:55:23 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2006, 11:50:16 PM »
<<Do you think of this [that "record tax generating Fed revenues" drowned in record Fed debt] as a fact or an opinioin?>>

It's my opinion - - a metaphorical way of stating that whatever increases in  Fed tax revenues were generated by Bush policies that stimulated corporate growth (which I think is what sirs was trying to say) were of little significance compared to the gigantic waste of national treasure reflected in the half-trillion dollar deficit.  (BTW, I think also that you and sirs might want to consider what portion of corporate growth was due to wages and benefits of various kinds being snatched away from American workers.)


<<What was the Debt as a proportion of the GNP ten years ago , and what is the percentage now>>

I have absolutely no idea and I'm always leery of making those kind of comparisons because the vast majority of the GNP winds up in private hands, it's not as if it were a government resource that the Feds can always dip into at will - - and if they DO dip into it, its owners are going to scream bloody murder.


It is my opinion that the National Debt is a shrinking part of the national picture , this is tipical for a good economy . Untill one of us is motivated to go to sorces my opinion is as good as yours.

Truely you almost get the big picture sometimes , the majority of the GNP SHOULD indeed be in priviate hands and it is perfectly proper to squalk about taxes that take resorces from the productive and hand them to the unproductive for small reasons.

sirs

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2006, 11:51:47 PM »
Truely you almost get the big picture sometimes , the majority of the GNP SHOULD indeed be in priviate hands and it is perfectly proper to squalk about taxes that take resorces from the productive and hand them to the unproductive for small reasons.

AMEN[/size]
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #25 on: October 26, 2006, 09:51:38 AM »
Quote
That combination is going to make Bush modify his message, to try and educate the folks that "stay the course" does not equal "we're not going to do anything different, and we're going to be there forever".

It made him change his message?

President Bush said he was not pleased with the direction of this war. Do you disagree with him? 
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: How reporting the war has changed
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2006, 05:01:51 PM »
President Bush said he was not pleased with the direction of this war. Do you disagree with him? 

No.  You know of someone who doesn't?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle