question about hillary

[Cynthia]

Cynthia, be honest, how much more could get done, ACADEMICALLY, during a school year if teacher didn't have to spend an inordinate amount of time dealing with discipline issues from a subset of the class?

Oh thanks for the question, Prof.

Actually, I think I answered this one in my post to BT. Hope my answer is clear. I am a bit tired this evening. We have had a lot of changes in our school this week, as we are moving into a new classroom that was just remodeled after 25 years+. Tax payer's dollars of course! But, at least I don't have to teach with 1950's window blinds, mold on ceilings, ...etc...I am so excited and so are the students. We pack every recess and we move in next week. The children are still learning the constructivist math, core reading strategies, and six+1 traits writing each day- no backin' off of curriculum! ha!

We all want perfection, and ease in our world, sure....but that's not always what is reality. XO said it best. He always does;)
I still maintain he's the professor's professor.....Thanks Xavier for your ability to speak for most educators...so far anyway.

By the way, I had an autistic child in my class two years ago. Was I to ignore him...or send him away, BT? No. The paper work to get him into special ed took almost the whole year. I learned a lot about perseveration, OCD, aspergers and autism...not to mention how to teach a child in such a world.  Priceless! I loved it.

XO:
What is needed is a teacher (idealist, pragmatist, vegetarian, whatever) that knows how to make this particular kid want to learn.

[_JS]

Who says anything about setting education to business standards.

Why are shouldn't basic standards be raised? What makes you think your child can handle the challenge and other peoples children can't?  Why not raise the bar?

The problem Bt is that you seem to be saying that setting a high standard magically makes it happen. It does not.

- Every child should learn Calculus before leaving their Junior year of High School -

Now what makes that happen? Will it happen? What happens if it does not? Do teachers start getting penalized?

You could simply remove the kids who cannot pass the high bar and then that will artificially inflate your achievement scores (and some countries do this). Yet, what have you really accomplished?


And again, you are distorting my argument. I never said "other children can't handle the challenge." I said there are always extenuating circumstances. I'll give you an example. Picture a child of a single mother who is dying of AIDs and lives in rundown tenement housing that hasn't seen any improvements in thirty years (budget cuts don't you know). This child has a hierarchy of needs, of which learning might be very important, but so is taking care of his mother and likely worrying about what will happen to him when she dies. He might have to purchase all the groceries, pay all the bills, do a great deal of things that a normal ten year old would never have responsibility over. Homework may not be first on his mind when he gets home - it might be that mom is vomiting blood again.

So, certainly this child can rise to challenges, but it may not be the ones you put towards him.

[BT]

So the exception should become the norm?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Where I teach, we have students from the US, but also a lot of students from the Caribbean: the Bahamas, US. Virgin Islands, Trinidad, British Virgin Islands, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, etc.

It is pretty safe to say that students who graduated from High School in any of the Caribbean Islands score on average 20-25% higher in my classes than those from the US, despite the fact that most Caribbean students have never taken Spanish before, and most of the US students have. Spanish is required in Trinidad, and the Trinidadians are usually my best students.

The US Virgin Islands and most of the rest offer scholarships based on academic performance: those who don't qualify don;t get any money and they don;t come to my university, or leave home at all.

[kimba1]

actually says something about education from abroad.
we tend to think it`s superior everywhere else.
but if you really think about it
not quite true
there is next to no chance for a son of a shoemaker in london of ever getting a high level job.
remember the very reason so many overseas student come here to learn
they just can`t get that education back home.
education wise we have the most available
if you look into those kids with higher test scores overseas
how many of those are from poor income families
pretty much everyone here can go to college and take any course
the only thing holding us back is money and sleep
I don`t anyone who works fulltime and goes to college whose fully awake.
some folks can giveup sleep at a drop of a hat
but most can`t

[Cynthia]

actually says something about education from abroad.
we tend to think it`s superior everywhere else.
but if you really think about it
not quite true
there is next to no chance for a son of a shoemaker in london of ever getting a high level job.
remember the very reason so many overseas student come here to learn
they just can`t get that education back home.
education wise we have the most available
if you look into those kids with higher test scores overseas
how many of those are from poor income families
pretty much everyone here can go to college and take any course
the only thing holding us back is money and sleep
I don`t anyone who works fulltime and goes to college whose fully awake.
some folks can giveup sleep at a drop of a hat
but most can`t

There was a movement here a couple of years ago to try out a new scheule for all students in teh PS.

The High School students would begin classes later in the morning, instead of 7 a.m. and the elementary students would begin classes earlier. Reason being; adolescents need more sleep (apparently, studies have shown).

The problem with the idea was the fact that many parents did not want to have to get up early in order to get their child to school in the primary schools. The High School students had after school sports practice, etc, so the idea just did not fly.
As it stands now, the High School kids are dismissed earlier in teh afternoon, and unless they have sports or music events, they are roaming the neighborhoods.

[Xavier_Onassis]

The mediocrity that used to be typical of US high schools has reached the college level. Most students at community colleges and other colleges that have anything resembling open enrollment (you can get in with a HS diploma), need to take remedial reading and match classes. There is a major problem with grade inflation in most colleges and universities, where most students get A's and B's in most classes.

US education is still better than education in Latin America, but rather far behind most of Europe, as well as Japan, Taiwan, and the 'Asian Tigers'.

[kimba1]

yeah but in europe and asia most don`t have access to that education.
here you have a better chance
the lead researcher to crack the genetic code never went to a ivy league school he did the trade school route .
I`m not saying anybody can do what he did,but the educational opportunity is much higher here in the U.S. than anywhere else.
true the quality is lacking compared to those oversea
but that not say much since most people there will never get that education anyway
I don`t recall people ever saying europe is a land of scholars
the education is high ,but that don`t seem to trickle down to the people
have you notice they can`t even use our method of measurement(which is way more complicated) and somehow they expect us to know 2 systems

[The_Professor]

The mediocrity that used to be typical of US high schools has reached the college level. Most students at community colleges and other colleges that have anything resembling open enrollment (you can get in with a HS diploma), need to take remedial reading and match classes. There is a major problem with grade inflation in most colleges and universities, where most students get A's and B's in most classes.

US education is still better than education in Latin America, but rather far behind most of Europe, as well as Japan, Taiwan, and the 'Asian Tigers'.

At the collegiate level, there are basically two levels of thought on tihs issue. One says htat if you need remeidal classes, then why are you in college, you need to puruse the trade school route. The other states that everyone deserves "a shot" and if remedial will help along this process, then why not? I work at an open enrollment institution and a large proportion of our classes are remedial. Students msut take thme nad pass with a certain grade (they get no academci credit for the class) vefore thye cna proceed to credit classes.