Author Topic: Recession?  (Read 13191 times)

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Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2008, 08:32:13 PM »
Quote from: Brassmask link=topic=5126.msg48759#msg48759

For you, "freedom" appears to mean doing whatever you want whenever you want to the detriment of anyone and everyone who doesn't like it.

You mean, like modern day Liberalism?? 



I find it interesting that we still can't come to some middle ground in this country in terms of compromise and discussion. I realize that there are two real "sides" in this country politically speaking, but we are so multi faceted in scope and I wonder sometimes why we can't see beyond the red and blue divide.

Sirs, I am not speaking of you, personally per say..but I find that many people in this country tend to pretty much lack the ability to discuss and see the other guy's point of view without labeling them as a box of nuts. ha!

Brass must have ONE good idea in his bag. Hell. who knows....why not let everyone share at least one good idea around the circle...

God, I am sounding like a teacher of kindergartners. ha!

Used to be one.....'tis why. ;)

But, really.....there are some things I agree with on the "liberal side"..and I can't see why some of those issues can't be knowns as conservative  issues with their own weight----such as the environment, education for all appropriately.


....ok, who here has one really good idea to heal this nation? Time to speak up.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2008, 08:42:44 PM by Cynthia »

yellow_crane

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2008, 08:49:59 PM »
It might be nice to mind your one business a lot more, Brass. I do not have a Hummer, I have a Honda Civic and two Toyotas. That being the case, it simply is NOT you and anyone's esle's business to tell someone who DOES have a Hummer to get rid of it. If you told me, I would tell you to mind your on business.


Had any other vehicle been posited as a standard for your noble consumerism chivalry, I might have consigned a nod at least for the Libertarian principle you embrace.

The symbolism of the hummer is large, its message loud; on an Ink Blot Card text, a hummer is . . . the bully in the schoolyard.

Only a sick society would condone their continuing insult.

Conquer the hummer sumbol, and you have symbolically conquered the fear engendered by those of the Cheney Administration.

Symbols are important in revolutions.

Don't be afraid of the word, we are in a revolution now, started by the radical right which keeps insisting on their "Cultural Revolution . . ."   Those countering those would be the counter-revolutionaries.  

That the counter-revolutionaries will wage this war in peaceful means, much as did the right in pushing their cultural revolution--so far, so good.

I myself am willing to fall upon the knife, my very life offered for the cause of ridding our souring nation of this ignoble spectre, this brutish machina.





BT

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2008, 09:00:57 PM »
Motorhead Messiah

Johnathan Goodwin can get 100 mpg out of a Lincoln Continental, cut emissions by 80%, and double the horsepower. Does the car business have the guts to follow him?
From: Issue 120 | November 2007 | Page 74 | By: Clive Thompson

?Check it out. It's actually a jet engine," says Johnathan Goodwin, with a low whistle. "This thing is gonna be even cooler than I thought." We're hunched on the floor of Goodwin's gleaming workshop in Wichita, Kansas, surrounded by the shards of a wooden packing crate. Inside the wreckage sits his latest toy--a 1985-issue turbine engine originally designed for the military. It can spin at a blistering 60,000 rpm and burn almost any fuel. And Goodwin has some startling plans for this esoteric piece of hardware: He's going to use it to create the most fuel-efficient Hummer in history.

Goodwin, a 37-year-old who looks like Kevin Costner with better hair, is a professional car hacker. The spic-and-span shop is filled with eight monstrous trucks and cars--Hummers, Yukon XLs, Jeeps--in various states of undress. His four tattooed, twentysomething grease monkeys crawl all over them with wrenches and welding torches.

Goodwin leads me over to a red 2005 H3 Hummer that's up on jacks, its mechanicals removed. He aims to use the turbine to turn the Hummer into a tricked-out electric hybrid. Like most hybrids, it'll have two engines, including an electric motor. But in this case, the second will be the turbine, Goodwin's secret ingredient. Whenever the truck's juice runs low, the turbine will roar into action for a few seconds, powering a generator with such gusto that it'll recharge a set of "supercapacitor" batteries in seconds. This means the H3's electric motor will be able to perform awesome feats of acceleration and power over and over again, like a Prius on steroids. What's more, the turbine will burn biodiesel, a renewable fuel with much lower emissions than normal diesel; a hydrogen-injection system will then cut those low emissions in half. And when it's time to fill the tank, he'll be able to just pull up to the back of a diner and dump in its excess french-fry grease--as he does with his many other Hummers. Oh, yeah, he adds, the horsepower will double--from 300 to 600.

"Conservatively," Goodwin muses, scratching his chin, "it'll get 60 miles to the gallon. With 2,000 foot-pounds of torque. You'll be able to smoke the tires. And it's going to be superefficient."

He laughs. "Think about it: a 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60 miles to the gallon and does zero to 60 in five seconds!"

This is the sort of work that's making Goodwin famous in the world of underground car modders. He is a virtuoso of fuel economy. He takes the hugest American cars on the road and rejiggers them to get up to quadruple their normal mileage and burn low-emission renewable fuels grown on U.S. soil--all while doubling their horsepower. The result thrills eco-evangelists and red-meat Americans alike: a vehicle that's simultaneously green and mean. And word's getting out. In the corner of his office sits Arnold Schwarzenegger's 1987 Jeep Wagoneer, which Goodwin is converting to biodiesel; soon, Neil Young will be shipping him a 1960 Lincoln Continental to transform into a biodiesel--electric hybrid.

His target for Young's car? One hundred miles per gallon.

This is more than a mere American Chopper--style makeover. Goodwin's experiments point to a radically cleaner and cheaper future for the American car. The numbers are simple: With a $5,000 bolt-on kit he co-engineered--the poor man's version of a Goodwin conversion--he can immediately transform any diesel vehicle to burn 50% less fuel and produce 80% fewer emissions. On a full-size gas-guzzler, he figures the kit earns its money back in about a year--or, on a regular car, two--while hitting an emissions target from the outset that's more stringent than any regulation we're likely to see in our lifetime. "Johnathan's in a league of his own," says Martin Tobias, CEO of Imperium Renewables, the nation's largest producer of biodiesel. "Nobody out there is doing experiments like he is."

Nobody--particularly not Detroit. Indeed, Goodwin is doing precisely what the big American automakers have always insisted is impossible. They have long argued that fuel-efficient and alternative-fuel cars are a hard sell because they're too cramped and meek for our market. They've lobbied aggressively against raising fuel-efficiency and emissions standards, insisting that either would doom the domestic industry. Yet the truth is that Detroit is now getting squeezed from all sides. This fall, labor unrest is brewing, and after decades of inertia on fuel-economy standards, Congress is jockeying to boost the target for cars to 35 mpg, a 10 mpg jump (which is either ridiculously large or ridiculously small, depending on whom you ask). More than a dozen states are enacting laws requiring steep reductions in greenhouse-gas emissions. Meanwhile, gas prices have hovered around $3 per gallon for more than a year. And European and Japanese carmakers are flooding the market with diesel and hybrid machines that get up to 40% better mileage than the best American cars; some, such as Mercedes's new BlueTec diesel sedans, deliver that kind of efficiency and more horsepower.

General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler, in short, have a choice: Cede still more ground--or mount a technological counterattack.

Goodwin's work proves that a counterattack is possible, and maybe easier than many of us imagined. If the dream is a big, badass ride that's also clean, well, he's there already. As he points out, his conversions consist almost entirely of taking stock GM parts and snapping them together in clever new ways. "They could do all this stuff if they wanted to," he tells me, slapping on a visor and hunching over an arc welder. "The technology has been there forever. They make 90% of the components I use." He doesn't have an engineering degree; he didn't even go to high school: "I've just been messing around and seeing what I can do."

All of which raises an interesting possibility. Has this guy in a far-off Kansas garage figured out the way to save Detroit?

America's most revolutionary innovations, it has long been said, sprang from the ramshackle dens of amateurs. Thomas Edison was a home-schooled dropout who got his start tinkering with battery parts; Chester Carlson invented the photocopier in his cramped Long Island kitchen. NASA, desperate for breakthroughs to help it return to the moon, has set up million-dollar prizes to encourage private citizens to come forward with any idea, no matter how crazy. As the theory goes, only those outside big industries can truly reinvent them.

Goodwin is certainly an outsider. He grew up in a dirt-poor Kansas family with six siblings and by age 13 began taking on piecework in local auto shops to help his mother pay the bills. He particularly enjoyed jamming oversized engines into places no one believed they'd fit. He put truck engines inside Camaros, Grand Nationals, and Super Bees; he even put a methanol-fueled turbocharger on a tiny Yamaha Banshee four-wheeler. "We took that thing from 35 horsepower to 208," he recalls. "It was crazy. We couldn't put enough fins on the back to keep it on the ground." After dropping out of school in the seventh grade, he made a living by buying up totaled cars and making them as good as new. "That," he says, "was my school."

Along the way, Goodwin also adopted two views common among Americans, but typically thought to be in conflict: a love of big cars and a concern about the environment. He is an avid, if somewhat nonideological, environmentalist. He believes global warming is a serious problem, that reliance on foreign oil is a mistake, and that butt-kicking fuel economy is just good for business. But Goodwin is also guiltlessly addicted to enormous, brawling rides, precisely the sort known to suck down Saudi gasoline. (I spied one lonely small sports car in the corner of his garage, but he confessed he has no plans to work on it right now.) When he picked me up from my hotel, he drove a four-door 2008 Cadillac Escalade XL that should have had its own tugboat. He parallel parked it in one try.

If Goodwin is an artist, though, his canvas has been the Hummer. His first impression of the thing was inauspicious. In 1990, he bought an H1 in Denver and began driving it back to Kansas. Within 50 miles, the bolts in the transmission shook loose, forcing him to stop to fix it. "By the time I made it home, after three roadside repairs, I pretty much knew that the Hummer was not all it should be," he told me. He didn't think much of the 200 horsepower engine, either, which did "zero to 60 in two days. It was a piece of junk."

So Goodwin decided to prove that environmentalism and power could go together--by making his new lemon into exhibit A. First, he pulled the gas engine so he could drop in a Duramax V8, GM's core diesel for large trucks. Diesel technology is crucial to all of Goodwin's innovations because it offers several advantages over traditional gasoline engines. Pound for pound, diesel offers more power and torque; it's also inherently more efficient, offering up to 40% better mileage and 20% lower emissions in engines of comparable size. What's more, many diesel engines can easily accept a wide range of biodiesel--from the high-quality stuff produced at refineries to the melted chicken grease siphoned off from the local KFC.

    "Think about it," Goodwin laughs. "A 5,000-pound vehicle that gets 60 miles to the gallon and will do zero to 60 in five seconds!"

Putting a diesel engine in the Hummer, however, required Goodwin to crack GM's antitheft system, which makes it a pain to swap out the engine. In that system, the engine communicates electronically with the body, fuel supply, and ignition; if you don't have all the original components, the car won't start. Goodwin jerry-rigged a set of cables to trick the engine into believing the starter system had broken, sending it into "fail-safe mode"--a backdoor mechanism installed at the factory. (At one point in his story, Goodwin wanders over to a battered cardboard box in the corner of the garage and hauls out an octopuslike tangle of wires--"the MacGyver," his hacking device. "I could have sold this for a lot of money on eBay," he chuckles.)

Once he'd picked the car's lock, Goodwin installed the Duramax and a five-speed Allison--the required transmission for a Duramax, which also helps give it race-car-like control and a rapid take off. After five days' worth of work, the Hummer was getting about 18 mpg--double the factory 9 mpg--and twice the original horsepower. He drove it over to a local restaurant and mooched some discarded oil from its deep fryer, strained the oil through a pair of jeans, and poured it into the engine. It ran perfectly.

But Goodwin wanted more. While researching alternative fuels, he learned about the work of Uli Kruger, a German who has spent decades in Australia exploring techniques for blending fuels that normally don't mix. One of Kruger's systems induces hydrogen into the air intake of a diesel engine, producing a cascade of emissions-reducing and mileage-boosting effects. The hydrogen, ignited by the diesel combustion, burns extremely clean, producing only water as a by-product. It also displaces up to 50% of the diesel needed to fuel the car, effectively doubling the diesel's mileage and cutting emissions by at least half. Better yet, the water produced from the hydrogen combustion cools down the engine, so the diesel combustion generates fewer particulates--and thus fewer nitrogen-oxide emissions.

    "You can feed it hydrogen, diesel, biodiesel, corn oil--pretty much anything but water."

"It's really a fantastic chain reaction, all these good things happening at once," Kruger tells me. He has also successfully introduced natural gas--a ubiquitous and generally cheap fuel--into a diesel-burning engine, which likewise doubles the mileage while slashing emissions. In another system, he uses heat from the diesel engine to vaporize ethanol to the point where it can be injected into the diesel combustion chambers as a booster, with similar emissions-cutting effects.

Goodwin began building on Kruger's model. In 2005, he set to work adapting his own H1 Hummer to burn a combination of hydrogen and biodiesel. He installed a Duramax in the Hummer and plopped a carbon-fiber tank of supercompressed hydrogen into the bed. The results were impressive: A single tank of hydrogen lasted for 700 miles and cut the diesel consumption in half. It also doubled the horsepower. "It reduces your carbon footprint by a huge, huge amount, but you still get all the power of the Duramax," he says, slapping the H1 on the quarter panel. "And you can feed it hydrogen, diesel, biodiesel, corn oil--pretty much anything but water."

Two years ago, Goodwin got a rare chance to show off his tricks to some of the car industry's most prominent engineers. He tells me the story: He was driving a converted H2 to the SEMA show, the nation's biggest annual specialty automotive confab, and stopped en route at a Denver hotel. When he woke up in the morning, there were 20 people standing around his Hummer. Did I run over somebody? he wondered. As it turned out, they were engineers for GM, the Hummer's manufacturer. They noticed that Goodwin's H2 looked modified. "Does it have a diesel engine in it?"

"Yeah," he said.

"No way," they replied.

He opened the hood, "and they're just all in and out and around the valves and checking it out," he says. They asked to hear it run, sending a stab of fear through Goodwin. He'd filled it up with grease from a Chinese restaurant the day before and was worried that the cold morning might have solidified the fuel. But it started up on the first try and ran so quietly that at first they didn't believe it was really on. "When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet. And they're like, 'Is it running? Yeah, you can hear the fan going.'"

One engineer turned and said, "GM said this wouldn't work."

"Well," Goodwin replied, "here it is."

Goodwin's feats of engineering have become gradually more visible over the past year. Last summer, Imperium Renewables contacted MTV's show Pimp My Ride about creating an Earth Day special in which Goodwin would convert a muscle car to run on biodiesel. The show chose a '65 Chevy Impala, and when the conversion was done, he'd doubled its mileage to 25 mpg and increased its pull from 250 to 800 horsepower. As a stunt, MTV drag-raced the Impala against a Lamborghini on California's Pomona Raceway. "The Impala blew the Lamborghini away," says Kevin Kluemper, the lead calibration engineer for GM's Allison transmission unit, who'd flown down to help with the conversion. Schwarzenegger, who was on the set that day, asked Goodwin on the spot to convert his Wagoneer to biodiesel.

Observers of Goodwin's work say his skill lies in an uncanny ability to visualize a mechanical system in precise detail, long before he picks up a wrench. (Goodwin says he does much of his mental work during long drives.) "He has talent unknown to any mortal," says Mad Mike, Pimp My Ride's host. "He has this ability to see things so exactly, and I still don't know how he does it."

For his part, Goodwin argues he's merely "a problem solver. Most people try to make things more complicated than they are." He speaks of the major carmakers with a sort of mild disdain: If he can piece together cleaner vehicles out of existing GM parts and a bit of hot-rod elbow grease, why can't they bake that kind of ingenuity into their production lines? Prod him enough on the subject and his mellowness peels away, revealing a guy fired by an almost manic frustration. "Everybody should be driving a plug-in vehicle right now," he complains, in one of his laconic engineering lectures, as we wander through the blistering Kansas heat to a nearby Mexican restaurant. "I can go next door to Ace Hardware and buy a DC electric motor, go out to my four-wheel-drive truck, remove the transmission and engine, bolt the electric motor onto the back of the transfer case, put a series of lead-acid batteries up to 240 volts in the back of the bed, and we're good to go. I guarantee you I could drive all around town and do whatever I need, go home at night, and hook up a couple of battery chargers, plug one into an outlet, and be good to go the next day.

"Detroit could do all this stuff overnight if it wanted to," he adds.

In reality, Goodwin's work has begun to influence some of Detroit's top auto designers, but through curious and circuitous routes. In 2005, Tom Holm, the founder of EcoTrek, a nonprofit that promotes the use of alternative fuels, heard about Goodwin through the Hummer-junkie grapevine and hired him. When Holm showed GM the vehicles Goodwin converted, the company was duly impressed. Internally, Hummer executives had long been looking for a way to blunt criticism of the H2's gas-guzzling tendencies and saw Goodwin's vehicles as an object lesson in what was possible. So GM decided to flip the switch: It announced the same year that, beginning in 2008, it would convert its gasoline Hummers to run on ethanol; by 2010, it said, Hummers would be biodiesel-compatible.

"It was an influence," concedes Hummer general manager Martin Walsh, of the EcoTrek vehicles. "We wanted to be environmentally responsible by having engines in Hummers that run on renewable fuels." But until I contacted Hummer for this story, GM didn't know that the man behind those machines was none other than Goodwin.

GM's commitment is a start, however halting. Overall, though, Detroit still seems to be all but paralyzed by the challenges of fuel economy, emissions, and alternative fuels. And it's not just about greed or laziness: Talk to car-industry experts, and they'll point out a number of serious barriers to introducing radically new alternative-fuel vehicles on a scale that will make a difference. One of the highest is that low-emission fuels--biodiesel, ethanol, electricity, hydrogen, all of which account for less than 3% of the nation's fuel supply--just aren't widely available on American highways. This creates a chicken-and-egg problem. People won't buy alternative-fuel cars until it's easy to fill them up, but alternative fuel makers won't ramp up production until there's a viable market.

Goodwin admits all these things are true but believes the country could be weaned off gasoline in a three-step process. The first would be for Detroit to aggressively roll out diesel engines, much as Europe has already begun to do (some 50% of all European cars run diesel). In a single stroke, that would improve the nation's mileage by as much as 40%, and, because diesel fuel is already widely available, drivers could take that step with a minimum of disruption. What's more, given that many diesel engines can also run homegrown biodiesel, a mass conversion to diesel would help kick-start that market. (This could have geopolitical implications as well as environmental and economic ones: The Department of Transportation estimated in 2004 that if we converted merely one-third of America's passenger cars and light trucks to diesel, we'd reduce our oil consumption by up to 1.4 million barrels of oil per day--precisely the amount we import from Saudi Arabia.)

The second step in Goodwin's scheme would be to produce diesel-electric hybrid cars. This would double the mileage on even the biggest diesel vehicles. The third phase would be to produce electric hybrids that run in "dual fuel" mode, burning biodiesel along with hydrogen, ethanol, natural gas, or propane. This is the concept Goodwin is proving out in his turbine-enhanced H3 Hummer and in Neil Young's Lincoln: "At that point, your mileage just goes really, really high, and your emissions are incredibly low," he says. Since those vehicles can run on regular diesel or biodiesel--and without any alternative fuel at all, if need be--drivers wouldn't have to worry about getting stranded on the interstate. At the same time, as more and more dual-fuel cars hit the road, they would goose demand for genuinely national ethanol, hydrogen, and biodiesel grids.

For Goodwin, navigating this process is all about imagination and adaptability. "The point is to design cars that are flexible," he says. "You'll see a change in how vehicles are fueled in the future. Which fuel source will be the exclusive one or the one that'll take over the petroleum base is, you know, anybody's guess, so it's like the wild, wild West of fuel technology right now. I think it'll be a combination between a few different fuels. I know hydrogen will definitely come around."

Imagination and vision, of course, are often rewarded. As global pressure increases on the United States to reduce our carbon emissions, those rewards are likely to get juicier. Under some versions of legislation being considered in Congress, for example, companies voluntarily deploying superefficient vehicles in large fleets could be awarded substantial offsets. Take DHL, the FedEx rival: Goodwin says his company, SAE Energy, is negotiating with the shipper to convert 800 of its vehicles to dual fuel. "We could get them an offset of something like 70 cents a gallon," Goodwin says, "and reduce their cost of fuel by 50%."

Industry insiders and observers agree with many of Goodwin's prescriptions, particularly his concept of fuel flexibility. "We have to have alternatives," says Beau Boeckmann, vice president of California's Galpin Motors, the largest Ford dealership in the country, who recently partnered with Goodwin to convert a 2008 F450 truck to hydrogen and biodiesel. "Only with a combination of things can we get alternative fuels off the ground." Boeckmann believes hydrogen is the true "silver bullet" for ending greenhouse gases but thinks it'll take more than a decade to figure out how to create and distribute it cheaply. Mary Beth Stanek, GM's director of environment, energy, and safety policy, also agrees with the multifuel approach--and points out that this is precisely how Brazil weaned itself from regular gasoline. "They pull up to the pump, and they've got a whole bunch of different choices," she notes. She, too, predicts diesel will make a comeback because of its inherent fuel efficiency: "You will see more vehicles going back to diesel over a lot of different lines."

Yet in reality, American carmakers seem conspicuously slow on the uptake. Stanek is about as ardent a fan of alternative fuels as you're likely to find inside GM, but even she admits no one there is seriously thinking of abandoning the gasoline engine anytime soon. The 300-million-gallon U.S. biodiesel business is a fraction of the 12-billion-gallon ethanol one. And Detroit is extremely cautious about what the market can bear.

A Detroit carmaker does, of course, have to worry about selling millions of cars at reasonable prices. But we've been hearing this refrain for a long, long time. And with European and Japanese carmakers driving ever harder into our market--and with Chrysler having become just another meal for Cerberus Capital--this hardly seems like the time to be overly cautious. (Those ultralow-emission Mercedes BlueTec diesels, for example, include a four-wheel-drive sedan that gets 37 mpg and goes from zero to 60 in 6.6 seconds.) Moreover, after decades of consumer apathy, improving fuel economy and reducing carbon output are becoming urgent national priorities. The green groundswell has arrived, and, given the stakes, anyone who ignores it does so at his peril. If Detroit can't sell diesel now--especially a clean, high-performance, money-saving diesel--it never will.

    With U.S. carmakers being stripped for parts, now is hardly the time for them to play it safe.

Goodwin, perhaps, can afford to be a visionary. He has the luxury of converting cars for fancy clients who'll pay handsomely to drive on higher moral ground. (He charges $28,000 for a "basic H2 conversion to diesel--custom concept cars cost far more.") The future of the American car will likely be won by an automaker that can split the difference--one that may innovate more slowly than Goodwin would like, but a hell of a lot faster than the Big Three.

Goodwin himself seems more oracle than implementer, slightly unsure of how his ideas could be brought to the masses. He's working on patenting aspects of his and Kruger's dual-fuel work and would love to license it to the big carmakers. But the truth is, he's a mechanic's mechanic--happiest when he's solving some technical puzzle. He loves getting his hands dirty, "throwing wrenches around" in his shop, pioneering some weird new way to fuel a car. Today, he's thinking about taking his wife's Infiniti, outfitting it with a tank of ether, and powering the engine via blasts of compressed air in the cylinders. "Zero emissions!" he crows. It's the visionary inventor's curse: constantly distracted by shiny objects.

Goodwin eyes the turbine, which he has dragged out to the center of the floor. Just for kicks, he says, he's thinking of mounting it on a wheelie board and firing it up. "I'd love to see how fast that goes," he says. "I'm just not sure how I'm going to steer it."

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/120/motorhead-messiah_Printer_Friendly.html

The_Professor

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 11:39:13 PM »
the auto industry? wiser? Hey, if I were in that industry, I would make all the nasty gas burners I could if people would buy them as fast as I could make them. It is simply the American Way.
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Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2008, 11:42:35 PM »
the auto industry? wiser? Hey, if I were in that industry, I would make all the nasty gas burners I could if people would buy them as fast as I could make them. It is simply the American Way.
[/quote
Well, true..LOL...

But, I think we need a wake up call. Perhaps the air we breathe will have to hit crisis state in order to make sweeping changes across the board of dash boards, et al. ;)

The_Professor

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2008, 01:14:08 AM »
Thank you, AL Gore. The best thing about Al Gore, I am afraid, is Tipper!

I am all FOR environmental awareness but I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage. For example, don't tell me I must use brick siding (or whatever) because it is more energy efficient. Instead, give me an incentive like a tax credit to use it.
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2008, 10:31:20 AM »
When you start a diesel engine up on vegetable oil," Goodwin says, "you turn the key, and you hear nothing. Because of the lubricating
power of the oil, it's just so smooth. Whisper quiet. And they're like, 'Is it running? Yeah, you can hear the fan going.'"

This may be true of THIS Diesel, but it is not true of the Diesels that I am familiar with.

My 85 Mercedes 300TD is slightly quieter on biodiesel, and so is my 90 300D, but they still have the characteristic Diesel engine 'rattle', which is the result of a 20:1 or so compression ratio.

Last year, Sol Biodoiesel, the people I buy my fuel from, had a "green day festival" and about 40 customers showed up, with VW Diesels, Mercedes Diesels, GM and Ford Diesels, and Cummings Diesels in Dodge Ram trucks.

Each and every one sounded quite Diesel-like, and you could tell each was a Diesel by listening form about 20 feet away.

So I deem that this guy is a promoter, as opposed to an objective scientist. Perhaps he can get 60 mpg from a Hummer and still do 0-60 in 5.0 seconds, but I will believe this only when I see it personally.

=======================================
I am opposed to Brass committing any form of hari-kari in his zeal to rid the planet of Hummers.

I am currently incapable of conjuring up a scenario in which Brass (or anyone) might die and somehow take a Hummer with him that would not seem really dumb. This is hard to conjure. Let's try again: MMMmmmmmmmmmm, Ommmmmmmmmmmmm!  Rrrrrrrrarggggh!  Nope, still not yet.

I also observe that it is unnecessary to defeat GM's security system to own a Hummer with a Diesel engine. US mi8liraty Hummers and the original H-1 came with a Diesel engine installed. The H2 AND h3 Are more like GM pickup truck chassis with Hummer bodies bolted to them.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2008, 10:41:09 AM »
Don't we already slap a luxury tax on these vehicles? (Hummers)
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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2008, 11:49:18 AM »
There is a gashog tax on at least some Hummers.

In a lot of cases, the more expensive something is, the greater the prestige.

No woman would buy a $5.00 perfume, no matter how good it smelled, for example.

My $20 Timex tells me the day, the date, and beeps on the hour. No $4000 Rolex can do all this.

People still buy grotesquely Land Rovers and Range Rovers, despite their hideous reliability reports.

When Hummers become unfashionable, people won't be able to give them away. They are the future Toronados and Cutlass S's of the 2020's, I am sure.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2008, 02:15:51 PM »
Thank you, AL Gore. The best thing about Al Gore, I am afraid, is Tipper!

I am all FOR environmental awareness but I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage. For example, don't tell me I must use brick siding (or whatever) because it is more energy efficient. Instead, give me an incentive like a tax credit to use it.


Hey, Professor, many things that start out as "encouragemnet", end up as a mandate one way or another.

Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2008, 03:34:17 PM »
The symbolism of the hummer is large, its message loud; on an Ink Blot Card text, a hummer is . . . the bully in the schoolyard.

Agree on that one, Yellow!! LEt's see how we can be more responsible to replace that bully with something more environmentlally friendly.

Don't be afraid of the word, we are in a revolution now, started by the radical right which keeps insisting on their "Cultural Revolution . . ."   Those countering those would be the counter-revolutionaries.

The word revolution (used in 3DHS) conjures the meaning-- "to overthrow of a ruler or government".
Perhaps revolution is too strong of a word, YC. ...Don't you mean the revolution of *spin*, as you do not agree with such spin-cycles in the world of politics?
 I disagree, we are not in a revoltuion.
No fears!

 The 'right' wants what it wants for the people. The 'left' wants what it wants for the people. The right and the left and those of us in between, just want what we want..... but we ARE the people.

The religious right wants prayer in school. True. They do.
I know...it can't happen, but don't we all want children to be able to learn and play in peace. Right now, teachers have their hands tied in so many ways. We can't teach morals, we can't touch children, (giving them a hug). In our system, some teachers can't even be in a room alone with a child. (Male specialists like speech pathologists, spec. ed etc) Sure, there have been some real perverted idiots and sick individuals who have held the position of educator-- and I say string them all up-- but, this country tends not to rant more about how to take away something of moral value without replacing it with anything PC+moral value.
 Take out all that is peace, play, joy, comfort, and even recently critical academics(art,. music, social studies, science) for the chance to score HIGH.....and replace it with mandates that don't work, scores that don't matter to the kids in the long run, no concrete method to help a child learn compassion for self and others. What do we get?....a deeper hole.
........ but by damn the politicians and the public are happy, overall. Why? Because they have won a critical point---it's so important to win in this country sans the willingness to look at raw data. Revolution...counter revolution?
Fight. Don't solve. Fight.


Ex: playground point:
For example. Our principal has taken away the privilege to play touch football from the boys in the school. It's too dangerous, she says. There are no other choices on teh "soccer field", sooooo the playground has become a mayhem ....sorta like scenes from the Gangs of New York!!  There is  body wrestling between first graders and fifth graders, bullies stalking the mini pockets of chaos,  ready to pounce on the innocent and the guilty, chase games that turn into PUSH GAMES, (one of my students had his wrist broken last week because of  a 'Pushing' game.) It's a mess.

Ok...take away an organized tag or touch sport....because of one or two little injuries. Frankly, the boys were really good at throwing and catchign that ball. They organized their own football game, and I even threw the ball in their game from time to time...shame it had to go out so fast.

 So, let's take away an child created organized game because it has so many dangerous elements within...and not bring in anything else in that will ease the mayhem. I have asked the coach, the principal, and NOPE NADA....a rule is a rule is a rule. Doesn't matter that there are little pockets of bedlum within the greens of the playground.
Too many basketball, wall-balls, footballs are being lost...so ok,then....no more balls are dispersed to kids.
Break a rule in a system, and suffer the consequence.......fend for yourself.

Now, I realize this playground example doesn't exactly compare to the issue of religion in schools, but there must be some sort of moral benchmark. Where are the ideas to heal the immoral elements that creep up behind this society? Yellow Crane, do you have any ideas...before you throw yourself on that sword?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 03:52:07 PM by Cynthia »

The_Professor

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2008, 03:40:56 PM »
Thank you, AL Gore. The best thing about Al Gore, I am afraid, is Tipper!

I am all FOR environmental awareness but I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage. For example, don't tell me I must use brick siding (or whatever) because it is more energy efficient. Instead, give me an incentive like a tax credit to use it.


Hey, Professor, many things that start out as "encouragemnet", end up as a mandate one way or another.

And this is good news? :-)
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                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2008, 03:46:11 PM »
Thank you, AL Gore. The best thing about Al Gore, I am afraid, is Tipper!

I am all FOR environmental awareness but I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage. For example, don't tell me I must use brick siding (or whatever) because it is more energy efficient. Instead, give me an incentive like a tax credit to use it.


Hey, Professor, many things that start out as "encouragemnet", end up as a mandate one way or another.

And this is good news? :-)


I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage.

I was responding to your own words, Prof. ;)

The_Professor

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2008, 03:50:49 PM »
Thank you, AL Gore. The best thing about Al Gore, I am afraid, is Tipper!

I am all FOR environmental awareness but I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage. For example, don't tell me I must use brick siding (or whatever) because it is more energy efficient. Instead, give me an incentive like a tax credit to use it.


Hey, Professor, many things that start out as "encouragemnet", end up as a mandate one way or another.

And this is good news? :-)


I draw the line when you begin to mandate instead of encourage.

I was responding to your own words, Prof. ;)

Huh? Whatever. I would like more incentives, e.g. positive encouragers than punitive measures like government mandates. How can anyone disagree with that?
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"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Cynthia

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Re: Recession?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 04:43:43 PM »
Huh? Whatever. I would like more incentives, e.g. positive encouragers than punitive measures like government mandates. How can anyone disagree with that?

You're right, I was thinking of the "encouragement" in terms of smokers. To me the encouraging news is to tax the smoker, mandate that no smoking be allowed in public places, etc.

In my opinion that equates to "encouragement" because even though it is a negative idea...taxes etc....it slows down the deadly activity, I hope. THat's "encouraging news to me.

But, in terms of incentives and positive encourages for those who drive an environmentally friendly vehicle, that's not to be disagreed with...of course not. Yes, I agree with taht.

gosh, I have been posting here for too long today..ha!
I have no lessons to plan for the first part of the week, basically because we are moving furniture to a newly renovated classroom on Tuesday. Yep, kids will be exercising their muscles instead of their brains....blame it on poor management, architects, bonds passed to pay for such
Gunna mandate that I step back and re read your posts again, however. ha!


 My point basically was this....
I want the HUMMER GONE. I think it's high time we stop building such over the top gas hogs. PERIOD.

So, yes, I am all for incentives....but, I want what I want, don't we all?  I dont' see any light at the end of the slippery slope when it comes to creating massive hogs like the Hummer unless we just say stop the presses now!

I think also, that if smokers were given incentives to stop smoking, they would not be able to. sadly....