Author Topic: Open-Minded Liberals?  (Read 17350 times)

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Rich

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Open-Minded Liberals?
« on: January 24, 2008, 11:43:10 AM »
Open-Minded Liberals?
By Larry Elder
Thursday, January 24, 2008

Walter Cronkite, when asked whether he agreed that liberals dominated the major news media, told me, "Yes -- if by liberal you mean open-minded."

Are liberals more "open-minded" than conservatives?

To find out, a biennial survey conducted by the University of Michigan's American National Election Studies uses a scale from 0 to 100 -- 0 meaning shoot-the-person-on-sight hatred, and 100 meaning find-a-place-for-him-on-Mount-Rushmore adoration. The 2004 survey then asked 1,200 adults to define themselves politically.

Using this 0-to-100 scale, the survey asked those who described themselves as "conservative" or "extremely conservative" to rate "liberals." Average score -- 39. "Liberals" and "extreme liberals" gave "conservatives" a similar score -- 38.

But the survey then asked respondents to apply the scale to specific people. How did "extreme conservatives," in 1998, rate then-President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore? "Extreme conservatives" gave them both an average reading of 45. Twenty-eight percent gave Clinton a 0, with 10 percent giving that score to Gore.

How did "extreme liberals" rate President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney in 2004? That group gave Bush and Cheney an average temperature of 15 and 16, respectively. Sixty percent of these extreme liberals gave Messrs. Bush and Cheney a 0. In other words, six out of ten Americans on the far left found that no evil, heinous person in the world could be worthy of more hatred than Bush and Cheney. For a little perspective, the then-alive Saddam Hussein received an average score of 8 from all Americans.

Dick Morris, a former aide to Bill Clinton, described how Clinton berated his 1996 Republican opponent, former Sen. Bob Dole. President Clinton said, "Bob Dole is not a nice man. Bob Dole is evil. The things he wants to do to children are evil. The things he wants to do to poor people and old people and sick people are evil. Let's get that straight."

After Republicans took control of the House in the mid-'90s, Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., compared the newly conservative-controlled House to "the Duma and the Reichstag." Dingell referred to the legislature set up by Czar Nicholas II of Russia and the parliament of the German Weimar Republic that brought Hitler to power.

Comparing Republicans to Nazis remains a favorite pastime of some Democrats. Billionaire Democratic contributor George Soros said the Bush White House displays the "supremacist ideology of Nazi Germany," and that the administration uses rhetoric that echoes his childhood in occupied Hungary. "When I hear Bush say, 'You're either with us or against us,'" Soros said, "it reminds me of the Germans."

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean characterized the contest between Democrats and Republicans as "a struggle of good and evil. And we're the good."

Last week at my local barbershop, the barber working at the chair next to mine, and his customer, discovered that I voted for George W. Bush. Shocked! Shocked! The customer stammered, "Why?"

Not particularly interested in a political discussion, I said something about keeping the country safe, opposition to big government, and support for low taxes.

"But how, how can you support somebody who pulled off 9/11?"

"Excuse me?" I asked.

"I believe 9/11 was an inside job."

"You mean Bush murdered 3,000 people on American soil?" I asked.

"He did it to get black people."

"Most of those killed in 9/11 were white," I said.

"They were in the way."

"Explain to me why people like Bush and Cheney run for public office in order to commit murder."

"Because that's what they do."

"For what reason? To get rich?" I asked. "They already were."

I then learned that somebody intentionally ruptured a levee in New Orleans during Hurricane Katrina; that Bush simply serves as a puppet for others; and that "they" wish to "destroy" the little people in the middle class.

Finally, I sighed and simply asked, "How do you function day by day?"

"What do you mean?"

"How do you get up in the morning thinking that somebody in Washington, D.C., wants to murder you?"

I started to ask him where he places Bush on that thermometer, but I think I already knew. So I switched the conversation to the NFL playoffs.

Bottom line: Conservatives consider liberals well-intentioned, but misguided. Liberals consider conservatives not only wrong, but really, really bad people.



Larry Elder is host of the Larry Elder Show on talk radio and author of Showdown : Confronting Bias, Lies, and the Special Interests That Divide America .

Knutey

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2008, 11:46:39 AM »
>>Bottom line: Conservatives consider liberals well-intentioned, but misguided. Liberals consider conservatives not only wrong, but really, really bad people. <<

And, in this case, both are correct.

Rich

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2008, 11:54:21 AM »
Hiya knutty!

Michael Tee

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2008, 12:09:24 PM »
<<But the survey then asked respondents to apply the scale to specific people. How did "extreme conservatives," in 1998, rate then-President Bill Clinton and Vice President Al Gore? "Extreme conservatives" gave them both an average reading of 45. Twenty-eight percent gave Clinton a 0, with 10 percent giving that score to Gore.

<<How did "extreme liberals" rate President Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney in 2004? That group gave Bush and Cheney an average temperature of 15 and 16, respectively. Sixty percent of these extreme liberals gave Messrs. Bush and Cheney a 0. In other words, six out of ten Americans on the far left found that no evil, heinous person in the world could be worthy of more hatred than Bush and Cheney. For a little perspective, the then-alive Saddam Hussein received an average score of 8 from all Americans.>>

All that shows to me is that liberals are so good that even dyed-in-the-wool conservatives can't say much against them.  Whereas Cheney and Bush must be the scum of the fucking earth.  Just what I've been saying all along.  For those who ranked Bush and Cheney as worse than Saddam Hussein, they were probably thinking along purely personal lines - - that Bush and Cheney had hurt them and their families worse than anything that Saddam had ever done to them.  Perhaps by sending their children to die in a useless war or leaving them saddled with crushing debt by failing to provide affordable health insurance.

Knutey

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2008, 12:12:33 PM »

The_Professor

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2008, 12:16:04 PM »
"open-minded liberals"?  Isn't this an oxymoron?  ;D
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

The_Professor

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2008, 12:17:49 PM »
>>Bottom line: Conservatives consider liberals well-intentioned, but misguided. Liberals consider conservatives not only wrong, but really, really bad people. <<

And, in this case, both are correct.

Oh, I don't know. I do consider many liberals to be misguided, but isn't that an entire universe away from thinknig they are bad people? For liberals to think of conservatives as bad people seems a lot meaner than the other half of the sentence.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 12:29:21 PM by The_Professor »
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Michael Tee

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2008, 12:23:49 PM »
<<For liberals to think of conservatives as bad people seems a lot meaner than the other half of the sentence.>>

There's nothing mean about it.  I think of conservatives as selfish, self-absorbed and not giving a shit about the plight of others, whether those others are blacks, homeless Americans, AIDS victims, Iraqis or prisoners in U.S. hands. 

That's not mean, but it's not sugar-coated either.  If the shoe fits . . .

Bottom line is, talking the talk ("compassionate conservatism") is not walking the walk.

The_Professor

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2008, 12:31:23 PM »
I am sorry you feel that way. I will still respect your views, even though they are misguided and, more importantly, I say nothing negative about you PERSONALLY.

This is like saying to a child "Suzzie, you did a bad thing" which is much preferable than "Suzzie, you are a bad person for doing that!"
« Last Edit: January 24, 2008, 06:52:16 PM by The_Professor »
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Rich

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2008, 12:49:30 PM »
>>"open-minded liberals"?  Isn't this an oxymoron?<<

Of course.

Todays liberals/fascists will stop at nothing to shut-up and deny your freedom of speech, religion and expression. All you have to do is look at the democrat party convention for proof. You tow the line, or you have no voice. They don't like Christians, so they are systematically removing Christianity from our culture. Liberals are the group outlawing certain thoughts and certain speech. Darwinism, you better believe or you're a Nazi. Global warming, same thing.

Liberal fascism is alive and well in this country. I've been saying it for years. Jonah Goldberg has written a book about it.

Rich

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »
>>I am sorry yo feel that way. I will still respect your views, even though they are misguided and, more importantly, I say nothing negative about you PERSONALLY.<<

It's all person to liberals. It's their religion. Liberals fascists see anyone who disagrees with them as the enemy. They must be stopped, at any cost. What are these attitudes based in? I suggest your average liberal is more than an a little dumb and-or mentally unstable. They'd have to be to believe the weird things they believe and to say the twisted things they say. To say Conservatives don't care about others is to close your eyes to the mountain of evidence that proves otherwise. Conservative donate more time and money to causes than liberals. That's a fact. Religious people do more to help others that liberals. Another fact. Liberals don't want to be bothered actually doing something, so they think the government should do it in their name. Eventually they expect the government to take care of them too.

Liberal fascism, American style, is the nanny state. It's nice fascism. It's what's best for you. Who decides? Why them of course, and if you don't like it, it's of to the camp with you.

kimba1

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2008, 01:33:36 PM »
thiers a movie called the last supper that`s  about some liberals killing conservatives

if you talk to some liberals they will say they would kill bush or reagan

but I don`t recall any conservative ever saying they would kill clinton.
my question here is would a conservative say they would?

sirs

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2008, 01:36:18 PM »
"open-minded liberals"?  Isn't this an oxymoron?   ;D

LOL.......touche'.  Oh, and great piece again by the Elder statesman.  Thanks for posting it Rich
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2008, 02:30:07 PM »
<<I am sorry yo feel that way. I will still respect your views, even though they are misguided and, more importantly, I say nothing negative about you PERSONALLY.>>

I have a lot of respect  for you personally, Professor, and I was not commenting adversely on you at all,  but commenting on conservatives in general, and the type of person that their philosophy would generally appeal to.  I didn't mean that everyone who finds their arguments appealing had to be like that.  I guess I should have made myself clearer and I apologize for not doing so.

It's actually a puzzlement to me when I find people who I think are decent and honourable taking up views that IMHO lead to so much unnecessary harm and suffering in the world that I can't help but ask Why?  WHY? often with an unavoidable note of exasperation in my voice.  But that's the nature of a debate when the issues are passionately felt.  Please let me know any time you feel that I crossed a line.  I appreciate it.

sirs

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Re: Open-Minded Liberals?
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2008, 02:39:01 PM »
While I scratch my head in bewilderment at so many well intentioned folks on the left side of the ideological aisle, who would actively facilitate and enable so much suffering, so much poverty, so much polarization........to what end?  Power?  The utopian pipe dream that all suffering and evil can be eliminated by talking & "redistributing wealth", and everyone is equal to everyone else, in every way?  To reinforce the sense of feeling so superior to those who simply don't realize they're in the presence of such intellectual superiority??   To what end, indeed?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle