Author Topic: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war  (Read 16380 times)

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Plane

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McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« on: January 28, 2008, 02:38:58 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/27/mccain-warns-there-will_n_83459.html


I like McCain , he is realistic and his straight talk is realistic.

If a canadate were to say that there will never be another war no one would beleive him , but what about canadates that simply avoid the subject?

The best policys dealing with wars are the ones that make them rarer and those that make us win them.

sirs

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2008, 02:52:24 AM »
Fact-Checking McCain's Straight-Talk

By George Will

In 2004, one of John McCain's closest associates, John Weaver, spoke to John Kerry about the possibility of McCain running as Kerry's vice presidential running mate. In "No Excuses," Bob Shrum's memoir of his role in numerous presidential campaigns, including Kerry's, Shrum writes that Weaver assured Kerry that "McCain was serious about the possibility of teaming up with him," and Kerry approached McCain. He, however, was more serious about seeking the 2008 Republican nomination.

But was it unreasonable for Kerry to think McCain might be comfortable on a Democratic ticket? Not really.

In ABC's New Hampshire debate, McCain said: "Why shouldn't we be able to reimport drugs from Canada?" A conservative's answer is:

That amounts to importing Canada's price controls, a large step toward a system in which some medicines would be inexpensive but many others ? new pain-relieving, life-extending pharmaceuticals ? would be unavailable. Setting drug prices by government fiat rather than market forces results in huge reductions of funding for research and development of new drugs. McCain's evident aim is to reduce pharmaceutical companies' profits. But if all those profits were subtracted from the nation's health care bill, the pharmaceutical component of that bill would be reduced only from 10 percent to 8 percent ? and innovation would stop, taking a terrible toll in unnecessary suffering and premature death. When McCain explains that trade-off to voters, he will actually have engaged in straight talk.

There are decent, intelligent people who believe that equity or efficiency or both are often served by government setting prices. In America, such people are called Democrats.

Because McCain is a "maverick" ? the media encomium reserved for Republicans who reject important Republican principles ? he would be a conciliatory president. He has indeed worked with Ted Kennedy on immigration reform, with Russ Feingold on restricting political speech (McCain-Feingold) and with Kennedy and John Edwards ? a trial lawyer drawn to an enlargement of opportunities for litigation ? on the "patients' bill of rights."

McCain is, however, an unlikely conciliator because he is quick to denigrate the motives, and hence the characters, of those who oppose him. He promiscuously accuses others of "corruption," the ubiquity of which he says justifies McCain-Feingold's expansive government regulation of the quantity, timing and content of campaign speech.

McCain says he would nominate Supreme Court justices similar to Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, John Roberts and Sam Alito. But how likely is he to nominate jurists who resemble those four: They consider his signature achievement constitutionally dubious.

When the Supreme Court upheld McCain-Feingold 5-4, Scalia and Thomas were in the minority. That was before Alito replaced Sandra Day O'Connor, who was in the majority. Two years later, McCain filed his own brief supporting federal suppression of a right-to-life group's issue advertisement in Wisconsin because it mentioned a candidate for federal office during the McCain-Feingold blackout period prior to an election. The court ruled 5-4 against McCain's position, with Alito in the majority.

In the New Hampshire debate, McCain asserted that corruption is the reason drugs currently cannot be reimported from Canada. The reason is "the power of the pharmaceutical companies." When Mitt Romney interjected, "Don't turn the pharmaceutical companies into the big bad guys," McCain replied, "Well, they are."

There is a place in American politics for moralizers who think in such Manichaean simplicities. That place is in the Democratic Party, where people who talk like McCain are considered not mavericks but mainstream.

Republicans are supposed to eschew demagogic aspersions concerning complicated economic matters. But applause greets faux "straight talk" that brands as "bad" the industry responsible for the facts that polio is no longer a scourge, that childhood leukemia is no longer a death sentence, that depression and other mental illnesses are treatable diseases, that the rate of heart attacks and heart failures has been cut more than in half in 50 years.

When McCain and Joe Lieberman introduced legislation empowering Congress to comprehensively regulate U.S. industries' emissions of greenhouse gases in order to "prevent catastrophic global warming," they co-authored an op-ed column that radiated McCainian intolerance of disagreement. It said that a U.N. panel's report "puts the final nail in denial's coffin about the problem of global warming." Concerning the question of whether human activity is causing catastrophic warming, they said, "the debate has ended."

Interesting, is it not, that no one considers it necessary to insist that "the debate has ended" about whether the Earth is round. People only insist that a debate stop when they are afraid of what might be learned if it continues.



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"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2008, 03:14:27 AM »
I don't always agree with McCain , nor do I always disagree with the Democratic platform. I am not hurt that McCain doesn't reject an idea instantly just because a Democrat once espoused it.

Importing (or reimporting) drugs from Canada would ruin the Canadian system for Canada ,the idea would work for about a weekThis is an idea in which I don't agree with McCain, I am generally far to his right.

I don't require my favorite candidate to agree with me on every conceivable issue , I prefer integrity to complete agreement .

Some candidates (yes even some of ours) strike me as insincere and their agreement with me might be a result of this mornings polling agreeing with me , an ephemeral ,wispy ,whim of an agreement with my opinions is a poor substitute for real intelligence , love of country , talent in leadership,inspiration , spirituality and most of all integrity.

I consider John McCain unlikely to become a weathervane with more polls in his pockets than thoughts in his head.

Also he and I agree on a few basic principals that would kill the deal if we didn't , I do require my favorite to agree with me a little.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2008, 03:17:29 AM by Plane »

Plane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2008, 03:31:50 AM »

sirs

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2008, 04:19:46 AM »
 ;)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2008, 12:03:55 PM »
I consider John McCain unlikely to become a weathervane with more polls in his pockets than thoughts in his head.

This is the primary reason why I prefer McCain at this point, I dont agree with some of his policy ideas but I do like his integrity.  He's not the politically manipulative animal that Hillary is, the somewhat shady and frightening person Huckabee is, or (to me at least) the naive wanderer that Obama is.  The best thing about McCain to me is that at 70+ years, what does he have to lose in defying some of the more extremist positions of his party?  His political career?  Admittedly, that can be a negative too ( George W anyone?), but I like the guy.

Michael Tee

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 12:41:41 PM »
So McCain is selling war.  Let's see who buys it.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 01:30:38 PM »
Importing (or reimporting) drugs from Canada would ruin the Canadian system for Canada ,the idea would work for about a weekThis is an idea in which I don't agree with McCain, I am generally far to his right.

===============================================================
No, it would not do any such thing. More drugs would be purchased through Canada, and if the US pharmaceuticals refused to send them, Canada could easily lift the patent rights and allow more drugs to be produced generically.

The drug companies are cleaning up bigtime when they are charging up to $15 for one damned pill.
US Big Pharma has a far higher profit margin than the legalized thieves who run the casinos.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The best policys dealing with wars are the ones that make them rarer and those that make us win them.

Well, then the Republicans are only half right, becsuse they mongered up a war with granada and another with Panama, and pretty much won both. But neither was necessary.


Reagan sent marines to Lebanon, for no good reason, and turned tail and got the Hell out when they got blown up. The next week he invaded Grenada, where the odds of winning was better. Otherwise strategic nutmeg stockpiles could have been depleted and we would have had to make do with cinnamon in our eggnog.

The US fights far too many wars. Iraq was entirely unnecessary- More so than Panama or Grenada.

Republicans like to monger wars. They are most sucessful if they pick on small, unprepared nations close to home.

If we elect -God forfend- another goddamn Republican president, I would fear for the governments of Barbados, the Cayman Islands, and St Kitts.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 10:10:29 PM »
Importing (or reimporting) drugs from Canada would ruin the Canadian system for Canada ,the idea would work for about a weekThis is an idea in which I don't agree with McCain, I am generally far to his right.

===============================================================
No, it would not do any such thing. More drugs would be purchased through Canada, and if the US pharmaceuticals refused to send them, Canada could easily lift the patent rights and allow more drugs to be produced generically.

The drug companies are cleaning up bigtime when they are charging up to $15 for one damned pill.
US Big Pharma has a far higher profit margin than the legalized thieves who run the casinos.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The best policys dealing with wars are the ones that make them rarer and those that make us win them.

Well, then the Republicans are only half right, becsuse they mongered up a war with granada and another with Panama, and pretty much won both. But neither was necessary.


Reagan sent marines to Lebanon, for no good reason, and turned tail and got the Hell out when they got blown up. The next week he invaded Grenada, where the odds of winning was better. Otherwise strategic nutmeg stockpiles could have been depleted and we would have had to make do with cinnamon in our eggnog.

The US fights far too many wars. Iraq was entirely unnecessary- More so than Panama or Grenada.

Republicans like to monger wars. They are most sucessful if they pick on small, unprepared nations close to home.

If we elect -God forfend- another goddamn Republican president, I would fear for the governments of Barbados, the Cayman Islands, and St Kitts.




Are you approveing the wars that have occured during Democratic administrations?

Plane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 10:11:42 PM »
So McCain is selling war.  Let's see who buys it.


I don't think that is what he said.

Can you say that there will not be war?

There is nothing to prepare for or guard against?

Michael Tee

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 11:32:03 PM »
<<I don't think that is what he said.>>

He accuses his opponents of waving the white flag or betraying the young men and women who wear the uniform, etc.  In the context of on-going war, that's selling war.

<<Can you say that there will not be war?>>

How?  There's already war.

<<There is nothing to prepare for or guard against?>>

Sure, guard your planes against hijackers.  Guard your shores against smuggled nukes.  Don't pretend that the wars of aggression that you have chosen to wage in Afghanistan and Iraq have anything to do with "guarding against" or "preparing for."  That's pure sophistry.   Don't pretend that war on Iran will be "guarding against" anything either.

What McCain is selling is war.  You know it and I know it.  He's gonna continue the war in Iraq, if necessary for 100 years.  He'll continue the war in Afghanistan.  He may attack either Pakistan or Iran next.  That's all war.  Nothing defensive about it.  They are all thousands of miles from here.  So the little old war criminal can sell war, and we'll just have to wait and see who's buying.

Plane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2008, 12:52:34 AM »
<<I don't think that is what he said.>>

He accuses his opponents of waving the white flag or betraying the young men and women who wear the uniform, etc.  In the context of on-going war, that's selling war.


When did he do that?


War is best avoided by being evidently tough , the tougness has to be visible.

This does fail , but what would never fail?


Quote
Sure, guard your planes against hijackers.  Guard your shores against smuggled nukes.  Don't pretend that the wars of aggression that you have chosen to wage in Afghanistan and Iraq have anything to do with "guarding against" or "preparing for."  That's pure sophistry.   Don't pretend that war on Iran will be "guarding against" anything either.

Should we enact restrictions on our transportation and imports and immagration to the point that we are safe from 19 guys that don't have criminal records?

That is a lot of restiction .

It is cheaper and more comfortable to go fight them closer to their home than ours , I wish they had realised this much earlyer. The busyer the are in Afganistan and Iraq ,the easyer it is to intercept their operations infiltrateing the US.

Invadeing Afganistan was totaly unavoidable , Iraq might be more arguable ,but it is working out well.

Right now I think that a war on Iran might be avoidable, the number of arms being smuggled into Iraq for the purpose of killing Americans has dwindled.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2008, 05:37:47 AM »
Are you approveing the wars that have occured during Democratic administrations?

===================
After Vietnam, the Democrats learned their lesson. Now all the wars are started by Republicans, who still think that Vietnam was some sort of "noble cause".

I am against all wars started by the US. We should not start wars.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2008, 12:07:51 PM »
<<When did he do that?  [accuse his opponents of waving the white flag or betraying the young men and women who wear the uniform]>>

Very recently, actually - -

McCain Criticizes Clinton's 'White Flag'
By Juliet Eilperin
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla.--Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) forcefully attacked Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) today for suggesting during Monday's Democratic debate that she would set a 60-day timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq if elected president.

"For the first time in American political history, a candidate for president has called for surrender and raised the white flag," McCain told reporters. "I think that's terrible.">>


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/24/mccain_criticizes_clintons_white_flag.html

January 27, 2008
On Saturday morning, McCain seized on the comment in Ft. Myers. Speaking to reporters after a crowded town hall meeting, he charged that Romney "wanted to set a date for withdrawal similar to what the Democrats have [been] seeking, which would have led to a victory by Al Qaeda, in my view."


Jan. 26, 2008
By LIZ SIDOTI Associated Press Writer
SARASOTA, Fla. (AP) _ JohnMcCain accused MittRomney Saturday of wanting to set a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, drawing an immediate protest from his Republican presidential rival, who said: ''That's simply wrong and it's dishonest, and he should apologize.''
McCain countered: ''I think the apology is owed to the young men and women serving this nation in uniform, that we will not let them down in hard times or good. That is who the apology is owed to.''

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmVkMTE2OWQ2YmIyNzZhYzk3ZDc1ZTQ5NDcyYzJhOTU=>>
=============

"If we surrender and wave the white flag, like Sen. Clinton wants to do, and withdraw as Gov. Romney wanted to do," McCain said, "then there will be chaos, genocide and the cost in American blood and treasure will be dramatically higher."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-gop_sunjan27,0,5535011.story
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<<Should we enact restrictions on our transportation and imports and immagration to the point that we are safe from 19 guys that don't have criminal records?>>

Nice straw man.  Who built him?  You should have, and Bush should have, instituted tighter airport security.  Very simple.  Very easy.  Bush didn't do it.  Had eight months to act, and did jack-shit all that time.  Fails miserably, and then you ask a question that has absolutely nothing to do with anything?  Instead of pretending that the problem is of such huge magnitude as to be insoluble, why don't you just admit that the attacks could have been avoided with relative ease and that Bush fucked up miserably?

<<It is cheaper and more comfortable to go fight them closer to their home than ours . . . >>

Huh?  It's cheaper and more comfortable to fight them in Iraq than to tighten up airport security?  Are you nuts?  Do you have the remotest idea what the war is costing you?  And "more comfortable?"  It's more comfortable for who?  For an airline passenger who won't have to take his shoes off at security or for the hillbilly moron who loses his limbs in Iraq?

<<Iraq might be more arguable ,but it is working out well. >>

Yeah, unless you're one of the 150,000 dead Iraqis or a family member.  Doesn't seem to be working out all that well for them.  Or one of the 4,000 dead hillbillies or the 25,000 wounded Americans.  You've really got some strange and bizarre ideas of what it means to be "working out well."  You're not even going to get any oil out of this.  This is a fucking catastrophe.

<<Right now I think that a war on Iran might be avoidable . . . >>

You sound like a boxer who's just had his ass whipped by two unranked nobodies saying that right now a title match with the champ might not be in the cards.  You're God-damned right a war with Iran "might be avoidable," much to my disappointment - - I would love to see what would happen to you guys if you took on Iran.  Militarily AND economically.  Too bad I'll never get the chance.

yellow_crane

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Re: McCain-warns-there-will-be- war
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2008, 07:19:44 PM »
<<When did he do that?  [accuse his opponents of waving the white flag or betraying the young men and women who wear the uniform]>>

Very recently, actually - -

McCain Criticizes Clinton's 'White Flag'
By Juliet Eilperin
WEST PALM BEACH, Fla.--Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) forcefully attacked Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) today for suggesting during Monday's Democratic debate that she would set a 60-day timetable for withdrawing troops from Iraq if elected president.

"For the first time in American political history, a candidate for president has called for surrender and raised the white flag," McCain told reporters. "I think that's terrible.">>


http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/24/mccain_criticizes_clintons_white_flag.html

January 27, 2008
On Saturday morning, McCain seized on the comment in Ft. Myers. Speaking to reporters after a crowded town hall meeting, he charged that Romney "wanted to set a date for withdrawal similar to what the Democrats have [been] seeking, which would have led to a victory by Al Qaeda, in my view."


Jan. 26, 2008
By LIZ SIDOTI Associated Press Writer
SARASOTA, Fla. (AP) _ JohnMcCain accused MittRomney Saturday of wanting to set a timetable for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq, drawing an immediate protest from his Republican presidential rival, who said: ''That's simply wrong and it's dishonest, and he should apologize.''
McCain countered: ''I think the apology is owed to the young men and women serving this nation in uniform, that we will not let them down in hard times or good. That is who the apology is owed to.''

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZmVkMTE2OWQ2YmIyNzZhYzk3ZDc1ZTQ5NDcyYzJhOTU=>>
=============

"If we surrender and wave the white flag, like Sen. Clinton wants to do, and withdraw as Gov. Romney wanted to do," McCain said, "then there will be chaos, genocide and the cost in American blood and treasure will be dramatically higher."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-gop_sunjan27,0,5535011.story
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<<Should we enact restrictions on our transportation and imports and immagration to the point that we are safe from 19 guys that don't have criminal records?>>

Nice straw man.  Who built him?  You should have, and Bush should have, instituted tighter airport security.  Very simple.  Very easy.  Bush didn't do it.  Had eight months to act, and did jack-shit all that time.  Fails miserably, and then you ask a question that has absolutely nothing to do with anything?  Instead of pretending that the problem is of such huge magnitude as to be insoluble, why don't you just admit that the attacks could have been avoided with relative ease and that Bush fucked up miserably?

<<It is cheaper and more comfortable to go fight them closer to their home than ours . . . >>

Huh?  It's cheaper and more comfortable to fight them in Iraq than to tighten up airport security?  Are you nuts?  Do you have the remotest idea what the war is costing you?  And "more comfortable?"  It's more comfortable for who?  For an airline passenger who won't have to take his shoes off at security or for the hillbilly moron who loses his limbs in Iraq?

<<Iraq might be more arguable ,but it is working out well. >>

Yeah, unless you're one of the 150,000 dead Iraqis or a family member.  Doesn't seem to be working out all that well for them.  Or one of the 4,000 dead hillbillies or the 25,000 wounded Americans.  You've really got some strange and bizarre ideas of what it means to be "working out well."  You're not even going to get any oil out of this.  This is a fucking catastrophe.

<<Right now I think that a war on Iran might be avoidable . . . >>

You sound like a boxer who's just had his ass whipped by two unranked nobodies saying that right now a title match with the champ might not be in the cards.  You're God-damned right a war with Iran "might be avoidable," much to my disappointment - - I would love to see what would happen to you guys if you took on Iran.  Militarily AND economically.  Too bad I'll never get the chance.


Everybody tosses around the word "divisive" and McCain seems not only to have avoided the appelation but has actually somehow, probably by playing his war prisoner persona to the hilt, comes off as a uniter via the paste of patriotism.

This is spite of his George M. Cohen rhetoric.

This might play well among the dottering, blotso American Legion crowd, but I hardly think today's average voter is moved by this, his kind of jingo.

He alters his voice purposefully, cracking and broken with some awe of pride, as if he were reading the Bible to kids.   At times I wonder if he thinks he owns the rights to sole spokesmanship for the kids dying in Iraq. 

You wonder at the acumen of his emphasis on this subject, given that the majority of the people of the country are against the continuing imperialistic invasion of oil-rich Iraq.

Since it taxes common logic, I can only assume that McCain is simply a cog in the wheels of the corporations and mega-rich who reap huge financial rewards when war is raging somewhere in the world.

That up against Obama and his message of talking to the world on an adult level seems to have set the debate:  do we want a remake of Rumsfeld and crewe, or do we want some civility restored to our worldwide reputation?

Given the compliance of the media in such matters, an easy conclusion is not guaranteed.