McCain Presidency Would Be a Disaster

[Xavier_Onassis]

How can you enforce the laws that define who is illegal if you don't deport the illegal aliens?

Either you deport them, or you let them stay.

If you let them stay, with no chance of becoming legal, you allow at least some to become legal, or you deport them. Those are all the choices that are possible.

Or perhaps you have one up your sleeve?

[sirs]

Plane, I'd rather discuss reality than theory. You've yet to explain to me how Denmark does so well.

Speaking of reality,
A) they don't have the population we do
B) they don't have the massive immigration influx we do
C) they don't have the global military committments we do
D) our constitution is not Denmark's constitution

[Christians4LessGvt]

[sirs]

How can you enforce the laws that define who is illegal if you don't deport the illegal aliens?  Either you deport them, or you let them stay.

Or you do what I specifically said, take action to the toon of about 100-200/wk, and allow that message to permeate thru-out the illegal immigrant community. (Law enforcement does that all the time with law breaking speeders, since not every speeder is pulled over & cited)  The combination of that and strict enforcement of those knowingly hiring illegals will create their own self deportation, as the job positions get taken up by those who came in legally.

As I said, try to avoid claiming something, I never said, or even implied.  You won't look so transparent

[_JS]

Plane, I'd rather discuss reality than theory. You've yet to explain to me how Denmark does so well.

Speaking of reality,
A) they don't have the population we do
B) they don't have the massive immigration influx we do
C) they don't have the global military committments we do
D) our constitution is not Denmark's constitution

So conservative economic theory only works in the United States?

Here's the problem with your analysis Sirs.

A) they don't have the population we do

So if we break the United States up into small pieces the siz of Denmark, we can have very nice functioning societies that still have booming economies, yet also take care of the people? If population is the problem then that's an easy fix. I think that population is more likely an easy excuse.

B) they don't have the massive immigration influx we do

As a percentage of total population, the Scandinavian nations hold their own when it comes to migrants. As you indicated above if immigration is really the horrible economic drain that some say it is (yet to br shown in any reasonable study by a credible authority) then Denmark would be destroyed in one quick blast by a small influx of migrants given their small population. Yet, they have less strict borders than we do.

C) they don't have the global military committments we do

Didn't you just get out of an argument where you praised Bt for showing the "perspective" that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan aren't that massive of expensditures when compared to overall GDP? You cannot have it both ways, Sirs. Are those "commitments" draining our economy or are they not?

D) our constitution is not Denmark's constitution

Yeah. So what? That is irrelevant to whether right wing economics works or not. That doesn't answer my original question. Why does Denmark work, if your all's theories hold that such a high burden of taxation should be killing them?

[Xavier_Onassis]

 I'd rather discuss reality than theory. You've yet to explain to me how Denmark does so well. If you, Sirs, Rich, et al are so certain of your economic principles then a nation like Denmark, Sweden, and Norway should, in theory, not be able to exist - let alone thrive!

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The thing is that housing and many other necessities of modern life are subsidized in Denmark.

When people have a few extra bucks in the US, the price of real estate, drugs, and other things rises to sop up the extra bucks. In Denmark, much of the housing belong to the government, and tax laws do not force its sale every 20 years to gve the landlord a break. Drugs are price controlled, as are many other things.

[Plane]

I'll leave you with a point to consider.

Half of the economic output of Denmark goes through the government (compared to roughly 30% in the United States). Denmark has high taxes including a 63% top rate on the wealthiest, it is the largest welfare state in terms of percentage of GDP, it has a massive public sector. It has been this way for roughly fifteen years (and even before then it spent far more as a percentage than the US).

Yet, it has a lower unemployment rate than the United States. The economy has continued to grow, many years growing faster than the U.S. economy. Denmark spends 4% of her GDP on worker training and education programs, nearly 20 times more than the United States. The Danes are considered one of the top educated workforces in the world and the country is considered to have one of the best infrastructures of any nation on the planet.

By your economic theory and statements and others I've heard on this forum, Denmark should be broke, starving (that's one I hear a lot), massively unemployed, buildings crumbling, horrible hospitals with terrible conditions, and perhaps a few gulags thrown in for fun.

Yet, the opposite is true! It is a thriving economy, extremely low unemployment, national healthcare, mass transit, and great schools. Why? Why aren't your prognostications of gloom and doom proving true in Denmark? Sweden? Norway?

You have just doubbled my knoledge of Denmark, I shall assume your assertions are corect .

Simular tax and benefit purportions are current in Mexico a failing economic model , the success of Denmark and the failure of Mexico which are useing simular economic plans presents a quandry to me .

What makes the diffrence?

Knowing so few details , I hereby present supposition.

The economic size is not very diffrent , the level of socialism is not very diffrent , yet while Denmark is busy proveing that socialism can work, Mexico is busy proveing it can fail.


I notice that Denmark is a center of trade and a broker of trade , this took centuries to develop , centuries of capitolism. Mexico has been socialist far longer than Denmark but hasn't really made a success of Denmarks sort of it. Could it be that a legacy of Capitolism can allow a socialist program to coast for a long time ?  Perhaps Denmark will not run out of steam for a generation or two , but why can Mexico get up no steam?

[_JS]

You definitely know few details if you think that Mexico and Denmark are similar governments. You'll have to show me how their programs are roughly the same Plane. Do you have evidence of such?

[Xavier_Onassis]

The economic size is not very diffrent , the level of socialism is not very diffrent , yet while Denmark is busy proveing that socialism can work, Mexico is busy proveing it can fail.


I notice that Denmark is a center of trade and a broker of trade , this took centuries to develop , centuries of capitolism. Mexico has been socialist far longer than Denmark but hasn't really made a success of Denmarks sort of it. Could it be that a legacy of Capitolism can allow a socialist program to coast for a long time ?  Perhaps Denmark will not run out of steam for a generation or two , but why can Mexico get up no steam?
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Mexico is in NO WAY socialist. The government owns and operates the oil business, Pemex, and there are some government-operated stores, called Conasupo, that sell a market basket of basic foods, such as beans, tortilla flour and tomato sauce to poor Mexicans (or anyone else with money) while supplies last, mostly in the larger cities. Ferrocarriles Naciones, the national railroad network, is run, rather poorly by the government, and generally costs about the same in intracity fares as second class bus lines, which are privately owned. The government owns a portion of Mexicana, the national airline, which is about as good and as cheap as private airlines, unless one is an employee and gets a discount.There are price controls on pharmaceuticals, and government workers are covered by a national group of IMSS hospitals. That is the extent of Socialism in Mexico. Oh yes, poor people can sell lottery tickets in the street if they know someone in the Loteria that will vouch for them.

The Partido de Acci?n Nacional, PAN is a rightist Christian Democrat affiliated party, and has made no moves to increase the number of government services since it has been in power.

For most Mexicans, Mexico is far less Socialist than the US. All Americans, not just government workers, have a right to Social Security. Whoever told you Mexico is Socialist knows very, very little about Mexico.

Danes are quite intolerent of corruption, and there is very little of it in Denmark. Mexico is generally rated as among the world's most corrupt nations.