Author Topic: Some Political Ruminations  (Read 11989 times)

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BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2008, 11:14:42 PM »
Perhaps it's not about the children after all

Cynthia

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2008, 11:58:38 PM »
leaving NCLB is all about the children.

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2008, 12:10:16 AM »
Sure it is.

Why have quality control in education.

Might as well disband the FDA while we are at it.


Cynthia

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2008, 12:30:18 AM »
Sure it is.

Why have quality control in education.

Might as well disband the FDA while we are at it.



BT,
Quality control? Have you seen first hand what that means in the classroom?

Broad stroking does not answer any of the questions nor does it drive any of the instruction needed to leave ABSOLUTELY NO child behind.

THE NCLB act has its great points, I agree. But there are some elements of it that are absolutely 'crazy making'. The punitive elements of the act have driven educators and administrators to do away with major curriculum areas of instruction ....just to 'make the grade'.....for fear that they will end up being taken over, lose their jobs and be placed on probabtion. Talk about teaching to the test. The system is scrambling to stay alive. That has affected children in the long run. The scrambling was never a part of quality education and the control was never really lost. It's like sending someone who ran a red light to a prison camp.

You must realize there is more to the story in the details than the public realizes.

There was a time when children learned and had many opportunities for success.

These days they are receiving far less because Bush wants EVERY child to be at the same level by a certain year....or else! Not reasonable. Not to say that we shouldn't have high standards, but the details are outrageously wrong in terms of punishment. Hard working educators and hard working students are suffering unfairly.   

Sure, tweak the darn thing.....but the way it is now...is horrid.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 12:43:23 AM by Cynthia »

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2008, 12:46:21 AM »
seems most of the complaints are coming from teachers not making the grade. And administrators should be fired for gaming the system.

Meanwhile you blame Bush for bill law pushed by Ted Kennedy.






Cynthia

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #20 on: February 01, 2008, 12:54:53 AM »
Well, now you have hit a nerve....I have said that the whole time...Kennedy was responsible for the act.
Bush has become the devil in the ugly details, however.

".....seems most of the complaints are coming from teachers not making the grade."

Not true. Not fair and typical of the public perception. Kick em when they are down, BT.

There's always room for improvement in any system. But to make outrageous statements that teachers who aren't making the grade are the ones complaining. Really, you know that for certain, BT?

There are fabulous educators who are leaving right and left because of the ruin that is happening in the system. Your statement is not true. But your need to blame teachers for the failure of the act, instead of blaming Bush/Kennedy only shows your ignorance of the facts.

That's a shame, but typcial.

But, of course, it's easy to call a game from the armchair.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 12:56:48 AM by Cynthia »

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2008, 01:04:33 AM »
My sister is a teacher. Been one for 30 years.

I don't see what is so onerous about requiring students to read at 5th grade level at the end of 5th grade. And it is a national disgrace to have the number of college students taking remedial classwork that we do.

Ask XO, he sees the results of children left behind.

Cynthia

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2008, 01:34:19 AM »
My sister is a teacher. Been one for 30 years.

I don't see what is so onerous about requiring students to read at 5th grade level at the end of 5th grade. And it is a national disgrace to have the number of college students taking remedial classwork that we do.

Ask XO, he sees the results of children left behind.


BT,

Again, I repeat, you don't see the problems in the NCLB act. The act could actually be a great thing if it were well thought out and equitable in scope and sequence.  There are, however, illogical punitive actions taken against systems, teachers that eventually trickle down to the students. The way the system is being organized and operated today...with all the data collecting, business tactic processes, assessments given more than instruction, not to mention lack of funding to train teachers as promised by the NCLB act....the system is failing, not the teachers/teaching.

The child who can't make that 'grade' in a regular classroom is sent through a referral process then tested for special education. In the past, those children who COULD NOT learn due to diagnosed learning disabilities were helped with special education classes. Now, those children are expected to make the grade along with all the other kids. That's just not reality. My god...we are not saying that we don't want to 'GIVE THEM A CHANCE".....OR that they can't learn.....

But as it is now, those children who need help are not placed, not qualifiying into special programs and are simply not serviced. = they are left behind.
The way it is today all children expected to do the exact same on tests scores..be damned their abilities. THAT'S what is wrong with the act...not the high standard of teaching or the programs provided. I love the new programs. I am one of the advocates of the NCLB provisions...."Reading First" schoosl...etc.
 Lawsuits have forced school systems to focus more on the life of the system as opposed to the needs of the children. ..but at what cost?
To require/demand that EVERY single child read at the 5th grade level is actually not a bad idea....but the punitive actionst that are given to the schools/teachers who dont' make that happen is unfair and frankly doing more to reverse the very idea of leaving no child behind. That's why this has to change.

We are overtesting.....taking away critical areas of the curriculum in order to make the NCLB grade.

Would you rather provide your child a complete well rounded education, or would you be happy to see that he/she is learning the basics...reading writing arithmetic.....sans the arts, music, social studies, science pe, literature....

As it is now.....there are about four kids in my classroom who can't read the book we are forced to teach all kids at the same time. . .no matter their level. THose four kids are not able to be taught with differentiated instruction because there is a mandate of time.... We are mandated to teach 90 minutes of phonics drill/template work, along with another mandate of 130 minutes of math and writing..and THAT'S IT.

When will I be able to find the time to teach those kids to read? I have to cheat and pray my principal doesn't walk in and see taht I am teaching instead of being a stepford teacher. It never used to be this way. I was able to individualize instruction...etc. Ironically, I could teach all children if I weren't told what and how to do it with a slap on the wrist/or fired if I don't do it their way.....I feel as though I am working in a socialist state.

Will it take:
The Parents?
A Village?

It used to take common sense, and the desire to teach all children. Pure and simple.
The system wasn't broken and yet NOW with this magic that is NCLB(without the common sense).... we are going to fix it?
I feel for the children, like the four I have....who are lost. They weren't  lost when I taught in the 70's 80's and 90's.

Paradigm shift is one thing, but to mandate stupidity is another.

There are elements in the act that need worked on.

I am so angry with the way it is going at this point, that I am ready to vote for HIllary if she gets rid of it.

Bush doesn't really give a damn. His own Texan teachers were caught in a scandal a couple of years ago...cheating to make that grade.

It's disgusting.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2008, 01:46:01 AM by Cynthia »

Universe Prince

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2008, 02:07:31 AM »

Why have quality control in education.


Heh. That's funny. Yeah, right. Next you're going to tell me that McCain-Feingold is "quality control" on political speech.


Might as well disband the FDA while we are at it.


Tempting. Wait, did you just compare federal food and drug standards to NCLB?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2008, 02:10:04 AM »
You keep bringing back the punitive portions of the act. Seems to me it is only punitive to those who fail to meet the goals. And the goals don't seem outrageous. 5th grade reading in 5th grade. Now if they were testing for 9th grade reading and calling it a 5th grade standard then you would have a point but i haven't heard that claim. I do hear a lot of excuses. Like lack of training for professionals who by definition should come into the field trained.


BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2008, 02:14:08 AM »
Quote
Heh. That's funny. Yeah, right.

I don't think education is a funny subject at all.


Universe Prince

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2008, 02:27:44 AM »
That is not what I referred to as funny. But you know that.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #27 on: February 01, 2008, 02:42:20 AM »
Actually i don't.

Should educators be held accountable for their work?

Is 5th grade reading competence an unrealistic goal for 5th graders?

Should taxpayers get value for their investment?

What say you?





Universe Prince

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #28 on: February 01, 2008, 02:44:58 AM »

seems most of the complaints are coming from teachers not making the grade. And administrators should be fired for gaming the system.


Tell that to Jefferds Huyck. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/education/11education.html
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

BT

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Re: Some Political Ruminations
« Reply #29 on: February 01, 2008, 02:58:13 AM »
California charter schools are exempt from the "highly qualified" NCLB rule.

http://www.uscharterschools.org/cs/dia/view/dm/1536?x-t=full.view

http://www.ed.gov/pubs/chartlegis/part1.html