Bush orders sanctions against Syrian officials

[Christians4LessGvt]

Bullshit.  

What are you looking in the mirror again?

They have very specific goals in Lebanon. 

No doubt because Lebanon is their battlefront in the larger movement.
Doofus I don't think Nasrallah is going to take over the world himself.
His part is to take over Lebanon as a picee of the larger puzzle.

What "larger worldwide movement" are you talking

Uh hello?
Do you read the papers?
It's in the papers on a daily basis.
The Islamist are very clear about their stated goals.
There is a violent Islamist movement all over the world.
Each one has specific goals to overthrow existing governemnts and install Islamist governments.

al-Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, released a video in which he made clear that Hezbollah's unprovoked attack against Israel was only a small part of the Militant Islamist war against the Free World.

The entire world is an open battlefield for us," Zawahiri proclaimed. "We will attack everywhere" until Islam reigns from "Spain to Iraq."

Hezbollah has expanded its terrorist campaign to other Western countries, attacking South American as well as European targets.  In 1983, Hezbollah bombed the French multinational headquarters in Lebanon, killing 58 Frenchmen. Members of Hezbollah were also implicated in the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Argentina that killed 85 people, as well as of the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires.

Nasrallah regularly urges the destruction of the United States.

about, how are they a part of it, who are the other members of it?  You are just talking out of your ass, frankly, about things you know nothing about.  This reminds me of nothing so much as Nazi talk of Jews being part of a vast conspiracy to dominate the world. 

Look no further than this Hezbollah terror master Imad Mugniyah that just got blown to bits in Syria.
http://ajacksonian.blogspot.com/2008/02/ending-mugniyah-and-missing-point.html

"We will rule the nations, by Allah's will," explained a Hamas spokesman from the Al-Qassam Brigades, "the USA will be conquered, Israel will be conquered, Rome and Britain will be conquered." The inclusion of Rome in statements such as these reveal the broader ambitions of Hamas it is concerned about more than just the Palestinians, or the United States' support for Israel: its war is against the entire Western world.


It amazes me that people were dumb enough to fall for that shit then and it amazes me today that after all the horrors of the Holocaust
there are still people dumb enough to fall for the same kind of racist, genocidal shit now.

If you read news headlines and the Islamist own words on a daily basis it is not very difficult to see and understand.
Governments all over the world are spending billions of dollars to combat the menace.
It's really no surprise to anyone but you.

Oh, that's VERY clever.  Now I am REALLY impressed by the power of your arguments.

I am not here to impresss you.

First of all, how do you know that Nasrallah is a "stooge" of anyone?

The Islamic government of Iran subsidizes Hezbollah to the tune of $100 million a year.
What? You think Iran just hands over 100 million plus and says "have a great day"? 
Yeah sure, now that really makes sense.
Hezbollah is the main weapon outside of Iran for Iran.

No terrorist group can succeed without support from terror-sponsoring states, which provide everything from funding, to logistical support and expertise, to sanctuary, to diplomatic backing. The terror masters, such as Iran, have similarly not limited their support for jihadism to groups that threaten Israel, but have waged a global campaign against the West

He strikes me as a pretty smart and capable guy.

What does smart have to do with anything as to being a stooge/proxy?
There are bright puppets all over the world.
Stooge/puppet whatever the semantics does not equate to low IQ.
Quit changing the subject.

Is it not possible that he benefits from sharing common ideals with the Iranians,

Absolutely you are making my earlier point.
Sure they share common goals.
They both want to see more and more Islamic governments.

and if so, how does that automatically make him a stooge?

So the Arab gvts getting US Aid and military goods are stooges but when the same thing happens
with the Islamist/Iran they are "oh so smart like Nasrrallah? Oh ok gotcha!

When did he ever sacrifice the welfare of Hezbollah to serve the interests of Iran? 

They are basically one in the same as far as interests.

But there are reports Iran took away some power from Nasrallah because of mistakes
made in last summer's war with Israel.


Don't they (Iran) give him rockets, money, advisors and training?

Exactly, to the tune of over a 100 million.

How do you know the Iranians aren't HIS stooges?

Well how do you know the US isn't the stooge for Mubarack?
Oh or is always different again?
The person getting 100 million in aid knows the aid has strings attached.
It's not really brain surgery to figure that out.
Without Iran Hezbollah collapses.

Again, you are talking straight out of your ass about stuff you really know nothing about.

More insults when you are busted?
Gosh sitting on that "stolen land" in Canada must be making you dizzy.
Yeah I sit on "stolen land" and condemn Israel for not giving back territory.
You are such a fraud.

Am I denying Nasrallah does not envison an Islamic Caliphate?  How the hell would you or anyone else know WHAT Nasrallah envisions? Do you deny that I am envisioning a naked Sophia Loren?  Get a fucking grip for Christ sake.

Yeah the Islamist movement does not envision toppling gvts and replacing them with Islamic gvts.
Yeah I need to get a grip.
All this violence all over the world by Islamist every day is not about toppling gvts and replacing the gvts with Islamic Gvts. Yeah not in Chechnya, not in Somalia, not in Pakistan, not in Thailand, not in Jordan. not in the Philippines, not in Ethiopia, not in India/Kashmir, ect ect ect ect ect ect I'm tired of typing!
 

Do you really have to use the "F" word and Christ in the same sentence?


"Hezbollah helps the Shiite militias in Iraq"
Geeze, when did THAT become a fucking crime? 
Oh, I know - - different Shiite militias than the ones the U.S.A. is helping.  Gotcha.

Quit changing the subject because you are busted.

When I said "Hezbollah is helping terrorist in Iraq" that was not a comment on the
criminalty of it it was to answer your bogus claim that they "Uhh, reality check. 
Hezbollah operates in Lebanon.  ONLY in Lebanon"
They are helping Hezbollah in Iraq and helping other stooges of Iran elsewhere.
A senior Lebanese Hezbollah operative, Ali Mussa Dakdouk, was captured March 20 in southern Iraq.
Nasrallah has acknowledged sending secret agents carrying weapons to the West Bank.
In the late 1990s, a Hezbollah cell was found in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Your implication that they are limited to Lebanon is just flat wrong.

[Michael Tee]

I will try to be as brief as I can.  I began discussing your take on Nasrallah and his movement, Hezbollah, which it was obvious you knew next to nothing about.  But it didn't matter much because whenever your factual errors about Hezbollah were pointed out, you immediately began discussing something called "Islamism" as if anything you could say about Islamism would automatically be true of Hezbollah and its leader.  This presented me with twice the work - - first, to consider what you said about "Islamism" to see if it was true or false, and in any event, to see if what you had established for "Islamism" could also be stuck onto Hezbollah.



Another problem was also presented by your style of debate, which was the nature of "Islamism" itself.
About the only articles you can find on "Islamism," unfortunately, are written by a bunch of Jews who claim to be "experts" on the Muslim world - - Barry Rubin, Bernard Lewis, Daniel Pipes, David Horowitz, etc. - - all of whom are ardent Zionists, pushing a very pro-Israel line.  "Islamism," if it exists at all, seems to be whatever these Zionists say it is, and if you want to know what an "Islamist" thinks or says, the chances are you'll have to find it in the works of one of these Jews, who are happy to pick out quotations, seemingly always hyper-belligerent, semi-crazy and insanely violent, in order to give you a "window" into the mind of the "Islamist." 

I guess the main fallacy with this kind of twisted "reasoning" is (a) there may not be any such thing as "Islamism" and (b) even if there is, it is far from monolithic.  For example, the Taliban is usually given as an example of "Islamism," yet Nasrallah is on record as having condemned the Taliban for being one of the WORST of the developments to follow in the wake of the revival of Islam - http://www.cfr.org/publication/11132/ (a website of the Council on Foreign Relations)  There was a similar condemnation by Nsrallah of the Sept. 11 attacks on the WTC, although not on the Pentagon.

So I would say that a huge amount of time could be wasted on examining your usually crude and baseless allegations about "Islamism" - - they are virtually impossible to prove or disprove, since nobody can say exactly what "Islamism" is, and moreover, it is impossible to determine who speaks for "Islamism" and who does not.  It is something like quoting from my posts to "prove" what the attitude of "Canada" is on any given topic - - I'm sure that many Canadians would be embarrassed, infuriated or delighted to have my words taken for "Canada's," but all would question my ability to speak for the country.

I'm happy to discuss Hezbollah and its leader on the basis of what they say or do, but certainly not on the basis of what "Islamism" is, does or represents.  That would be a pointless exercise, one which you could always win, in effect because you could make "Islamism" (and thus, by your reasoning, Hezbollah) into whatever you or your "experts" say it is, and there would be no effective way of proving or disproving your allegations, because of the difficulties already alluded to.

I also want to say that the whole concept of "Islamism" and the "Islamist movement" reminds me very uncomfortably of Nazi propaganda against the Jews, particularly the forged documents "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion," purporting to record the minutes of meetings of wealthy and powerful Jews plotting to take over the entire world.  The Protocols, huge numbers of which were printed and distributed by both Adolf Hitler, and his Amerikkkan admirer, Henry Ford, were very similar to today's theories of "Islamism" in depicting a worldwide conspiracy of sinister, hook-nosed, swarthy Middle Eastern males, racial aliens as Amerikkkans then would have referred to them, posing an immediate threat to all decent God-fearing folk, which had to be dealt with immediately and harshly, lest the entire world be lost to these aliens.

Both the Protocols and the Islamist hoax are racist in the extreme, hateful and hurtful.  That the Jews, victimized in such an extreme fashion by this kind of hoax, would be the ones who re-invent it with Muslims this time as the villains, and turn it against other people, just boggles my mind.  But that even after the fraud of the Protocols was revealed, that there are still people dumb enough to believe in the "Islamist" hoax, is truly amazing.

Anyway, I am trying to be brief.  I responded as best I could to your post.  It was long, repetitive and I might have missed something.  I think although this post is necessarily general, the generalities should pretty much deal with every point you raised.  (And also avoid quite a few, those that depend on a discussion of the qualities of "Islamism." )  If you feel there are any points you raised that I DIDN'T deal with, I was not consciously trying to ignore them but would be pleased to respond to in another post.  ("Islamism" of course being excepted.)

[Michael Tee]

<<In the late 1990s, a Hezbollah cell was found in Charlotte, North Carolina.
Your implication that they are limited to Lebanon is just flat wrong.>>

IIRC, that was a fund-raising cell.  It was just raising money for operations in Lebanon by smuggling cigarettes.  It certainly does not fit your model of Hezbollah trying to set up Islamic Theocracies everywhere.  They weren't in North Carolina to set up anything except a cigarette-smuggling ring.