Author Topic: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"  (Read 7991 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2008, 01:39:29 PM »
<<They SAY they have longer range rockets they aren't using. Why would they not use them if they had them?>>


No, these are rockets they already used in the 2006 fighting.   Remember, they hit Haifa from Lebanon?

Why don't they use them now?  Rules of the game.  At this point they're just lightly harassing the Israelis and the Israelis are making their usual noises of victimization, killing a few Palestinians in "reprisal" attacks and showing the world how "forbearing" they are.  It's more like a public relations exercise for them both -- Nasrallah can impress the homeboys and the Israelis get to play the injured victim, a role they really excel at.

When the shit hits the fan, Hezbollah will roll out the BIG rockets and I'm betting they'll be bigger than in 2006.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2008, 02:08:10 PM »
When the shit hits the fan, Hezbollah will roll out the BIG rockets and I'm betting
they'll be bigger than in 2006.


Man I hope you're right Michael.

Please, please, please, please, please let that be true.
(but I don't think Iran/Syria/Naz have the balls. They'd rather play proxy games)

I hope Hezbollah does roll out the BIG rockets so the "game players" will be
silenced and Israel can launch it's full force against Syria/Iran/Hezbollah.
Even better would be if Iran tried to invade.
Boy that would be the bestest of the best.

It is time to finally settle it once and for all instead of the little games you speak of.

Plus now is preferable to a year, 2-3 years from now when the IslamoNazis in Tehran have a nuke or two.

Now is the time.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

The_Professor

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 02:33:25 PM »
I agree, to no one's surprise, with CU4. Isreal blinked in Lebanon. Too bad for them. Perhaps they will not be so enamored of global public opinon and get the job done this time. We'll see..
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_JS

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 02:36:44 PM »
XO is right. Nasrallah is merely posturing.

Not only does Hezbollah not have the capability to fight a major war, they have no need to do so. The IRA and Iraq are the models to go by when fighting a military with the capabilities of Israel or the United States. It isn't a matter of "having the balls" but a matter of having the brains. None of those groups can last any length of time fighting a superior military force like the U.S. or Israel. They are completely one dimensional and even lack basic mechanized infantry. The only alternative is guerilla warfare and it has proven to be very costly as Israel discovered in Lebanon and the U.S. rediscovered in Iraq.

It takes a lot of money, time, and equipment to fully train and place a combat-ready American soldier in the field. On the other hand, it does not take an equivalent investment for insurgents or small militias (such as Hezbollah or Hamas) to train and arm one of their combatants. When the U.S. loses three soldiers and a hummer to an i.e.d or eight soldiers in a Blackhawk downing, it is a substantial loss in both life and material. When insurgents lose eight soldiers and even eight AK-47's, it isn't an equivelant loss in their terms.

As for the Israelis, they will never know peace until they have a state freed of apartheid. They can ask South Africa how that works. Police states work for only so long and they constantly breed violence and insurrection. The more iron fisted they are, the more the people will fight against the injustices of that state.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2008, 03:31:05 PM »
As for the Israelis, they will never know peace until they have a state freed of apartheid. Police states work for only so long and they constantly breed violence and insurrection. The more iron fisted they are, the more the people will fight against the injustices of that state.

"Never know peace" is a relative term.

Israel is far from alone.

Does the US "know peace"?
Does Russia "know peace"? (Chechnya)
Does North/South Korea "know peace"?
Does India "know peace"? (Kashmir)
Does Lebanon "know peace"?
Do the Balklands "know peace"?
Does Pakistan "know peace"?
Does Thailand "know peace"?
Does Turkey/Kurdistan "know peace"?
Do the Philippines "know peace"?
Does Nigeria "know peace"?
ect....ect.....ect

True Israel may not have total peace but there are tons of other so called
"police states" that "will only work for so long" including Iran.

And Israel like the US, Canada, and many other countries may have to destroy their
enemy and usher in "a more peaceful period".

For example the US destroyed the enemy at home and became realtively
peaceful.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

_JS

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2008, 03:36:15 PM »
The U.S. destroyed their enemy at home?

I think that Scandinavia knows peace.  :P
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2008, 04:11:14 PM »
The U.S. destroyed their enemy at home?

Sorry JS on-line it is hard to decipher if you are joking.
But in case you're not. Uh yes for all practical purposes
the American Indian tribes were wiped out and/or forced
on to mostly desolate reservation camps. Hey guess
where alot of Palestinians are? Yep in refugee camps.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2008, 04:16:01 PM »
I agree with J_S on this.  The guerrilla tactics have already succeeded in driving Israel out of South Lebanon and then out of Gaza.  In Iraq, Amerikkka is reduced to dealing with both sides in the civil war, merely to delay the inevitable, while the U.S. dollar continues to slide.  It's anybody's guess how much longer the U.S. can keep paying the piper, but my guess is that once Bush is gone, his successor will have to reduce the expenditure sharply.  For every Iraqi, this is the signal that the helicopters will soon be on the Embassy roof. 

For every Resistance fighter killed by Jews or Amerikkkans, the fascists have spent millions and the Resistance has lost only hundreds.  In reverse, every dead fascist costs bad guys big bucks and yet the fascist is killed at the cost of a roadside bomb or a sniper's bullet.  Of course, every wounded fascist costs the bad guys exponentially more, considering the high-cost, low-value Amerikkkan medical system.

These are wars of attrition that the bad guys almost always lose, provided only that the good guys can take the punishment long enough.  Doesn't seem fair or just, but it's life.

Plane

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2008, 04:54:34 PM »
So why is it that good guys count human life cheap?

Michael Tee

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2008, 05:05:30 PM »
<<So why is it that good guys count human life cheap?>>

Is "Live free or die" a good guy expression or a bad guy expression? 

The good guys prefer death to slavery.  Life lived as a slave IS cheap.  Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

Plane

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2008, 05:08:32 PM »
<<So why is it that good guys count human life cheap?>>

Is "Live free or die" a good guy expression or a bad guy expression? 

The good guys prefer death to slavery.  Life lived as a slave IS cheap.  Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.

We don't want them to be slaves , we are fighting the slave mentality that can't conceive of self goverrnment.Our Allies rise from amoung the people whne we are stead fast .

Michael Tee

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2008, 05:21:43 PM »
<<We don't want them to be slaves , we are fighting the slave mentality that can't conceive of self goverrnment.>>

That's pure bullshit.  Your real objective is to install a Mubarak-like government that does what you want it to do and sells oil to you at your prices.  You want to be sure that if people say, hey we don't want this government that gives away our oil cheap, we want one that keeps all the revenue here, like Saddam did, when we all had free educations and health care, that such people will be arrested, tortured and killed or locked up forever.  THAT'S what you want.  And people who don't want to live under your thumb like that will fight you to the death. 

Face this fact:  the U.S. has NEVER promoted real self-government in the Middle East.  It promotes and protects the King of Jordan, Mubarak, the King of Saudi Arabia, etc.  All non-democratic torture states that rule by force and by fear.

Face this fact:  when the U.S. encounters a true, democratically elected and independent government in the Middle East, it conspires to undermine and overthrow it.  As in Mossadegh's Iran, to bring in the Shah; as in Palestine, to break down Hamas.

Why would you think anyone would be so stupid as to believe your bullshit that you are fighting the slave mentality when everything you have ever done in the Middle East is to enslave the peoples of the region to tyrannical governments that act in your interests?


<<Our Allies rise from amoung the people whne we are stead fast .>>

Really, I don't know what you are talking about.  Who are your "Allies" anyway?  Mubarrak?  The King of Jordan?  Musharraf?  Any two-bit dictator you can buy or rent?

Plane

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2008, 05:39:22 PM »
<<We don't want them to be slaves , we are fighting the slave mentality that can't conceive of self goverrnment.>>

That's pure bullshit.
 
No it is how I really think.

Quote
Your real objective is to install a Mubarak-like government that does what you want it to do and sells oil to you at your prices. 
We can't really do this , I never thought we could and why should our prime objective be something every thoughtfull person considers impossible? The Oil will rise in value and decrease in availibility no matter what the politics are like. Hugo Chavez too is learning that he doesn't controll the price of oil in any real sense.

Quote
You want to be sure that if people say, hey we don't want this government that gives away our oil cheap, we want one that keeps all the revenue here, like Saddam did,
Saddam sold us oil , when he took over Kuait he said he would sell us oil , as if we cared about nothing elese, and the mere flow of oil being dependable would mollify us, then he set the oil feilds of Kuait ablaze because he thought that would make a diffrence. Not a thoughtfull sort.

Quote
when we all had free educations and health care, that such people will be arrested, tortured and killed or locked up forever.  THAT'S what you want.  And people who don't want to live under your thumb like that will fight you to the death. 
Then they die for nothing , we don't want them under our thumb.
Quote

Face this fact:  the U.S. has NEVER promoted real self-government in the Middle East.  It promotes and protects the King of Jordan, Mubarak, the King of Saudi Arabia, etc.  All non-democratic torture states that rule by force and by fear.
That was almost true till recently , now we are promoteing one rather than takeing what we find and chooseing a faction to back the way we used to.
Quote

Face this fact:  when the U.S. encounters a true, democratically elected and independent government in the Middle East, it conspires to undermine and overthrow it.  As in Mossadegh's Iran, to bring in the Shah; as in Palestine, to break down Hamas.
We may be lovers of democracy , but why should we feel obliged to support a government that opposes us , whether democratic or not?
Quote

Why would you think anyone would be so stupid as to believe your bullshit that you are fighting the slave mentality when everything you have ever done in the Middle East is to enslave the peoples of the region to tyrannical governments that act in your interests?
Anyone that can see Japan sould know what we like to have happen in that respect . The Establishment of democracy in Iraq is gonna be good for the people of Iraq and that by itself is a good attack on the root causes of poverty , discontent and violence in the Middle east .
Quote


<<Our Allies rise from amoung the people whne we are stead fast .>>

Really, I don't know what you are talking about.  Who are your "Allies" anyway?  Mubarrak?  The King of Jordan?  Musharraf?  Any two-bit dictator you can buy or rent?
[/quote]
Quote

The People of Iraq , who moved in mass to elect their own elders to a new government . It is the main part of them that are our freinds.

_JS

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2008, 06:24:00 PM »
Quote
Anyone that can see Japan sould know what we like to have happen in that respect . The Establishment of democracy in Iraq is gonna be good for the people of Iraq and that by itself is a good attack on the root causes of poverty , discontent and violence in the Middle east .

In fairness Plane, Japan's "democracy" was little more than a sham for many, many decades at the national level. The local level was more of a democracy, true, and interestingly the Japanese often voted for extreme parties that include the communists, a party that is respected in Japan for their competence and lack of corruption (a far cry from their Chinese couterparts).

In most countries the United States absolutely has not supported democracy. From an historical viewpoint I really don't know where you get the notion that we "are lovers of democracy."

Even if we count Japan and West Germany, that is two. Off the top of my head I can give you many more examples of dictators we installed and democracies we dismantled to install some of them. It is a true historical myth that this country has supported democracy in its history. It has been quite the opposite.

Let's see:

Democracies we overthrew to install dictators: Chile, Greece, Iran, Vietnam (was supposed to hold elections and we cancelled them)
Dictators we installed: South Korea, Taiwan, South Vietnam, Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, El Salvador, Cuba, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Guatemala, Panama, Indonesia

That's just off the top of my head. We also supported the Khmer Rhouge, Haile Selassie, Saddam Hussein, numerous Pakistani juntas, China, Thailand, etc.

No, if I were an Iraqi student of history I'd have to weigh the evidence as being VERY unlikely that the United States would support a democratic government over a government that supports the economic ideals of the United States despite what form it takes.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

Michael Tee

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Re: Nasrallah: "If Israel wants open war, so be it"
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2008, 07:13:49 PM »
<<We can't really do this [install a Mubarak-type puppet government], I never thought we could and why should our prime objective be something every thoughtfull person considers impossible?>>

Oh, but you're far too modest.  You've done it many times.  The Shah.  Mubarak.  The King of Jordan.  The King and Royal Family of Saudi Arabia.  The Emir of Kuwait.  And many other two-bit tyrants all depend on you for support and weapons and protection.  Without you, they could not continue to exist. Of course you can do this.  Have done this.  Are doing this.  Will continue to do this.  Until stopped by superior force.  Hopefully China and/or India.

<<The Oil will rise in value and decrease in availibility no matter what the politics are like. Hugo Chavez too is learning that he doesn't controll the price of oil in any real sense.>>

So what?  You aren't trying to control the price of oil - - you'll have a better shot at it later, if you can rob Iran of its oil too.  Right now, it's sufficient to force a country like Iraq (a) to hold off before pricing its oil in euros and (b) to cough up a percentage of its profit to "foreign multi-nationals" owned or controlled largely by Big Oil and its friends.

<<Saddam sold us oil , when he took over Kuait he said he would sell us oil , as if we cared about nothing elese, and the mere flow of oil being dependable would mollify us . . . >>

And it certainly would have, only (a) there was that little issue of trust, how'd you know that he wouldn't sell more to the Chinese if they offered him more and (b) it was kind of irksome to see all of their oil  revenues going to the Iraq National Oil Company, when other, more cooperative countries were so generously willing to share their revenues with you.

<<Then they die for nothing , we don't want them under our thumb.>>

But it's funny all the same, isn't it, how you keep supporting your puppet rulers with arms and money and intelligence-sharing, and they keep imprisoning and torturing and murdering their opponents, even though you, their good friends and benefactors don't want anyone "under your thumb?"  I guess maybe the explanation is, your purposes are served just the same if the opposition dies under the puppet's thumb rather than under your own thumb?

<<That [Amerikkka's promotion of torture states and dictators] was almost true till recently , now we are promoteing one rather than takeing what we find and chooseing a faction to back the way we used to.>>

If that's really true, why are you still backing all the other dictators, murderers and torturers.  And why should anyone believe that you have suddenly switched course?  Changed a sixty-year pattern of constant unchanging behaviour and turned on a dime?  Why?  What happened to promote such a radical switch?  Give me ONE reason why I should believe that NOW, suddenly, the Big Bad U.S.A. has suddenly decided to become Mr. Nice Guy?  Was there a wholesale change of government nobody told me about?

<<We may be lovers of democracy , but why should we feel obliged to support a government that opposes us , whether democratic or not?>>

Then perhaps you have an explanation as to why the only governments that seem to oppose you (forcing you to overthrow them) are the ones that are democratically elected, and all the ones that support you (prompting you to support them) are murderous, torturing tyrannies ruling by fear and by force?  Quite a coincidence, isn't it?  Especially considering how you are yourselves such wonderful, pro-democracy people.

<<Anyone that can see Japan sould know what we like to have happen in that respect . >>

Japan's not the Middle East, plane.  The shit you get away with in the Middle East and Latin America you could never get away with in Japan.  People in the Middle East would look to see what you do where it counts for them, in the Middle East, not Japan.  It's your Middle East policy and not your Japanese policy that is under discussion.  So again, same question, why would anyone with a knowledge of your past conduct in the Middle East have any reason to believe your ridiculous lies that it is "democracy" you are pursuing in Iraq?