Author Topic: Haditha is on Frountline  (Read 14469 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #105 on: February 29, 2008, 04:58:59 PM »
My view, which agrees somewhat with my Canadian misguided colleague, is that Bush mas made many miscalculations, including Iraq. Even William F. Buckley agreed.

My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion


Once again Prof, something that we're in complete agreement upon.

And a position I (& dare I say, most rationally minded folk as well) tend to concur with as well     

I have to disagree , to say that Bush made bad decisions presupposes that there were better alternative choices availible , I don't see that there were.

Don't get me wrong.....I'm referring to decisions and judgements made after Saddam was taken out, Plane.  Going in was the last resort, and a GOOD decision made, based on the intel at the time.  But following the mission accomplished, the post Saddam planning has been extremely poor in its implimentation, with back-up plans very poor if not absent, when things were'nt going to original plans.  These would be judgement calls that Bush can easily be responsible for, and properly criticized on
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #106 on: February 29, 2008, 05:15:56 PM »
Hmmmmm....


Invadeing Iraq and then pulling back to see what the Iriquis would do has been tried.

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #107 on: February 29, 2008, 05:19:23 PM »
I don't think that an truely perfect alternative was ever availible.
======================================
Well, duh.

Are any perfect alternatives EVER available?

But the alternative in which 4,000 Americans were not killed in the Iraq War, where no Iraqis were driven into exile, where the Sunnis and Shiites managed to live nextdoor to each other in the same neighborhoods, in which the Golden Mosque was not blown up, in which maybe 20,000 US soldiers were not maimed or turned into vegetables just might have been a better one.

What it looks like is that Juniorbush, Rummy and Cheney cherry-picked intel, throwing out anything that might make invading Iraq sound like the bad, dangerous or stupid idea that it really was, and keeping all the rest. The various allies didn't want to anger the Americans by disagreeing with them, so they chose to sort of agree, but not to the point where they would send in large numbers of troops as in Iraq War I.

Juniorbush and Cheney wanted to invade Iraq the day that they were selected. 9-11 was used as their justification.

The invasion was done without proper planning, and with Rummy disagreeing with and overriding Shinsecki and any other experienced officer that disagreed with him, and the results were the ghastly botched mess we had until Pertraeus managed to have some successes.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

The_Professor

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #108 on: February 29, 2008, 05:20:58 PM »
No one said a PERFECT solution was available, only that there were several including not getting involved.

If I invaded every country that MIGHT be developing WMDs because they just MIGHT want to ZAP me, well, I'd be busy doing that and nothing else.

I think, and this may sound simplistic, but geogrpahical proximity matters. If it were Mexico instead of Iraq, I might change my mind. But, of course, it wasn't.

Again, my belief, unsubstantiated as it is, is that Bush went witrh the best intel he had and it was flawed. Hard to.
\' blame him for that. Quite frankly, it happens. Unfortunately.

Once we conquered their armed forces, we should have handed the baton to anyone standing and left.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2008, 06:37:25 PM by The_Professor »
***************************
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."
                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #109 on: February 29, 2008, 05:43:18 PM »
No one said a PERFECT solution was available, only that there were several including not getting involved.

If I invaded every country that MIGHT be developing WMDs because they just MIGHT want to AP me, well, I'd be busy doing that and nothing else.

I think, and this may sound simplistic, that geogrpahical proximity matters. If it were Mexico instead of Iraq, I might change my mind. But, of ocurse, it wasn't.

Again, my belief, unsubstantiated as it is, is that Bush went witrh the best intel he had and it was flawed. Hard ot blame him for that. Quite frankly, it happens. Unfortunately.

Once we conquered their armed forces, we should have handed the baton to anyone standing and left.

Since we were already involved the choice to become uninvolved would have required allowing Saddam to take over again.

Ducking out , leaveing the sciene , allowing whoever was standing to have controll ,was the choice taken in Afganistan when the Russians left. Did we learn then that this was a good choice?

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #110 on: February 29, 2008, 05:57:08 PM »
<<Ducking out , leaveing the sciene , allowing whoever was standing to have controll ,was the choice taken in Afganistan when the Russians left. Did we learn then that this was a good choice?>>

Looks like it was a great choice - - for Russia.  They weren't bothered by the Afghans any more.  From then on the problem of Afghanistan became YOUR problem.