Author Topic: Haditha is on Frountline  (Read 14486 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2008, 02:51:03 PM »
I hate liars and I hate murderers.  Bush is one of the worst I've seen in my lifetime.

Regardless, they exist. I avoid dealing with liars and murderers, but I don't spend my time and energy hating them. It serves no purpose. I do, however, calmly work against them.

And I have yet to see anything "conclusive" about Bush being more of a liar than any other politician. And I don't consider deaths in a properly authorized war to be "murder."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2008, 02:52:28 PM »
<<...Outside of course actual CONCLUSIVE DOCUMENTS by INVESTIGATIVE BODIES, that have made it clear that Bush didn't manipulate the intel or lie us into war, coupled with common sense.  But, yea, you just keep going right on calling it "zero evidence". >>

Uh, no, actually, I DON'T call it "zero evidence," I call it a blatant whitewash

Minus of course any FACTS to bolster said pathetic deflection.  Must fit template.....must fit template, don't dare try laying any facts that refute my predisposed position of how evil Bush is.

As transparent & pathetic as you can get, Tee

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2008, 03:05:19 PM »
<<Minus of course any FACTS to bolster said pathetic deflection. >>

The FACTS of course are the names and records of the members of the "investigative bodies," none of which would be "facts" in sirs' lunatic world, but "leftist lies and distortions."  Or the FACT, for example, that neither Ralph Nader or anyone designated by him, nor George Soros, nor anyone designated by him, nor anyone of comparable stature in the anti-Establishment world, were ever asked to participate in the "investigations" of the "investigative bodies."  Those "investigative bodies" were in fact, as every sane and normal person realizes, a safe bunch of Beltway insiders carefully chosen not to make any waves.
THOSE are "facts."  Your pathetic claims that the "investigative bodies" really "investigated" anything that could negatively impact upon the "President" or that their "reports" are "conclusive" of anything important are certifiably delusional. 

The_Professor

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2008, 03:12:54 PM »
I agree and disagree here.

My view, which agrees somewhat with my Canadian misguided colleague, is that Bush mas made many miscalculations, including Iraq. Even William F. Buckley agreed.

My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion.

But to HATE a President? I disagreed with just about all of Clinton;s social programs, but I did and do not HATE him.

I present to you MT that hate is a bridge too easily crossed and yet a path difficult to retrace once attempted. It serves no real purpose other than self satisfaction.
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Michael Tee

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #94 on: February 28, 2008, 03:30:50 PM »
<<I present to you MT that hate is a bridge too easily crossed and yet a path difficult to retrace once attempted. It serves no real purpose other than self satisfaction.>>

I'll present to you my upbringing, Professor, which probably goes back to Old Testament values even though my parents themselves were not religious people.   There are good guys and bad guys in the world, Professor.  They are known by their deeds, although intention of course factors into it.  Bad guys are to be hated, good guys are to be loved.  Bad guys are to be destroyed, as Hitler, the Nazis and the entire German society of the day were destroyed.  Blasted from the face of the earth, as Churchill once said. 

I can exterminate a nest of wasps without any hate in my heart.  But it would be impossible to kill a Nazi without hate in my heart.  I would submit that merely killing him or her without hatred would be nowhere near as satisfying as killing them with your heart full of hate at the same time.  Killing bad people without hate would remove all traces of joy from the act.  Hatred of the evil is a natural and human emotion.  Without it, the human race could not have survived, or if we had, we would be a race of miserably oppressed slaves ruled by people as evil as the descendants of Bush and Cheney would be if allowed to cross-breed with others as evil as themselves for thousands of years. 

It is unnatural and IMHO unhealthy NOT to hate someone as bad as Bush or Cheney, considering the things they have done, the sufferings they have caused, all avoidable, none of it necessary.  I would be less than human if I didn't hate them.  "For evil to triumph, it suffices only that good men stand aside and do nothing."  I believe that if God exists, he has commanded us to destroy the evil-doer, by the sword in the old days, and today only after a trial and conviction, with due process of law, but the destruction if convicted must be complete and that means complete physical anihilation.  Bush and Cheney should be on trial for their lives before an international war crimes tribunal.

sirs

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #95 on: February 28, 2008, 04:41:52 PM »
<<Minus of course any FACTS to bolster said pathetic deflection. >>

The FACTS of course are the names and records of the members of the "investigative bodies," none of which would be "facts" in sirs' lunatic world, but "leftist lies and distortions."  

Only in Tee's world are simply the names of all the Dems and Republicans involved in the bipartisan investigation, somehow proof of some CYA whitewash.  Not to mention the similar conclusions made in Great Britain.    Brilliant


Or the FACT, for example, that neither Ralph Nader or anyone designated by him, nor George Soros, nor anyone designated by him, nor anyone of comparable stature in the anti-Establishment world, were ever asked to participate in the "investigations" of the "investigative bodies." 

Ahhh, that's what we needed, folks who were as public as possible in their condemnations of how bad Bush and the war were to offer "objective" analysis of the intel, privvy to congress.  Yea, in Tee's world, that works    ::)


Those "investigative bodies" were in fact, as every sane and normal person realizes, a safe bunch of Beltway insiders carefully chosen not to make any waves. ... THOSE are "facts."  

LOL....So says your must fit template OPINION, minus again any FACTS or EVIDENCE.  Why you keep revalidating my point is beyond me, but by all means, continue


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #96 on: February 28, 2008, 05:04:25 PM »
<<Only in Tee's world are simply the names of all the Dems and Republicans involved in the bipartisan investigation, somehow proof of some CYA whitewash.  Not to mention the similar conclusions made in Great Britain.    Brilliant>>

Yeah that's right.  And only in Tee's world do the "anti-war" Democrats Pelosi and Reid continue to fund the very same war that they pretend to "oppose."  Brilliant.  When are you going to wake up to the real world and the total fraud of the "two party" system, where one party pretends to oppose the militarism and imperialism of the other party but does absolutely nothing to stop it?  In your never-neverland, the Democrats are the anti-war party.  In the real world, they keep the war going.  Oh well, why let a few simple facts interfere with your concept of the so-called "two-party" system?

<<Ahhh, that's what we needed, folks who were as public as possible in their condemnations of how bad Bush and the war were to offer "objective" analysis of the intel, privvy to congress.  Yea, in Tee's world, that works >>

Of course, why let real critics of the administration take any part in evaluating its performance?  A good administration deserves to be evaluated by its friends and supporters so the people can all trust the evaluation report.  Let the inmates write their own progress reports, who the hell needs doctors?

<<LOL....So says your must fit template OPINION [that those  "investigative bodies" were in fact, as every sane and normal person realizes, a safe bunch of Beltway insiders carefully chosen not to make any waves] minus again any FACTS or EVIDENCE. >>

Oh.  Stupid me.  I got it all wrong again.  OK sirs, help me out - - which members of those "investigative bodies" were NOT Beltway insiders?  They were all "mavericks" and "rebels," eh?  Show me one.

<<Why you keep revalidating my point is beyond me, but by all means, continue>>

Translation:  Declare victory, hit ENTER.  Gotcha.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 05:10:04 PM by Michael Tee »

fatman

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #97 on: February 28, 2008, 05:05:56 PM »
My view, which agrees somewhat with my Canadian misguided colleague, is that Bush mas made many miscalculations, including Iraq. Even William F. Buckley agreed.

My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion


Once again Prof, something that we're in complete agreement upon.

sirs

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #98 on: February 28, 2008, 05:20:39 PM »
My view, which agrees somewhat with my Canadian misguided colleague, is that Bush mas made many miscalculations, including Iraq. Even William F. Buckley agreed.

My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion


Once again Prof, something that we're in complete agreement upon.

And a position I (& dare I say, most rationally minded folk as well) tend to concur with as well     
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #99 on: February 28, 2008, 05:45:38 PM »
<<My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion>>

It just makes no sense at all.  The Project for a New American Century, authored mainly by rabid Zionists, including Robert Zoellick, Paul Wolfowicz, Eliot A. Cohen, Elliott Abrams, Richard Perle, all of whom (with the possible exception of Cohen) served in the G. W. Bush administration.  Donald Rumsfeld was another author of the PNAC, also prominent in the Bush administration.  PNAC proposed a U.S. invasion of Iraq as far back as the Clinton administration.  Bush's entire administration was permeated with Zionists and PNAC members, long-time supporters of an invasion of Iraq, and some of them (including Douglas Feith, not particularly associated with PNAC) and Perle had actually worked for the Zionist government before coming into the Bush administration.  Iraq at the time was a major enemy of Israel, and taking out Saddam Hussein was obviously very much to Israel's advantage.

Again Bush's idea that there were WMD in Iraq is (a) dead wrong (b) was sourced exclusively by sources which could all be traced back to the Iraqi National Congress of Ahmed Chalabi, which had a very obvious interest in regime change and (c) was not sufficient to convince France, Germany, Russia, India, China, Canada and many other countries that the "threat" required invasion when Bush invaded anyway.

Furthermore, the issue is a red herring.  It was never established that possession of WMD by Iraq was any kind of threat to the U.S.A. as Iraq had never used WMD against the U.S. in any prior conflict.  In fact, it was obviously suicidal for Iraq to attack Americans or America with WMD, thus extremely unlikely.

You can't invade another country on pure speculation of what they "might" do - - that's an outrageous formulation of what's acceptable international conduct and of course it's a pretty basic concept so there is no doubt at all that Bush understood this as well as anyone else.  The claim of WMD was not even meant to be taken seriously for the simple reason that it made no sense at all.  It was a smokescreen or fig leaf for a decision already taken, back when first formulated by PNAC, that the U.S. should invade Iraq, an oil-rich nation.  The reason for the invasion could be presented later.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2008, 06:11:05 PM by Michael Tee »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #100 on: February 28, 2008, 08:41:44 PM »
Were the White house Solar panels working?

==================================

Of course they were working. There was no problem, they were ripped off because Reagan's handlers wanted to make a statement that Big oil was back in the driver's seat.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #101 on: February 28, 2008, 11:31:02 PM »
<<Xo has been letting his hatred of Bush permeate in nearly every thread, which is also fine...but doesn't make him immune to anyone that points that out>>

This and Ami's snarky little "Let the hate flow . . . " comment are great demonstrations of a kind of deflection that basically turns the conversation around from a blistering examination of Bush's lies and crimes (starting a war based on lies to grab oil and power in the Middle East and unleashing the hell of war on millions of innocent victims) to a psychoanalysis of, of all people, XO.

The most transparently ridiculous debating tactic, but nothing too cheap or cheesey for our crypto-fascist friends.

Hatred of war can and should be extended to hatred of those who wage war deliberately and for no good reason.  For those who lie and distort and twist to justify their evil deeds.

As far as I can see, if you can't hate Bush, who the hell CAN you hate?  (Oh, of course - - I know.  Jane Fonda.  Cynthia McKinney.  Cindy Sheehan.  Real bastards like them.  THEY are the ones who are really responsible for all the pain and suffering of war.)

You know why these right-wing thugs get away with their absurd and crazy bullshit time after time after time?  Because no one challenges them on it.  No one calls them out.  People are SCARED by the "support our troops" sloganeering - - to attack Bush is to attack the war is to attack the troops is to be "unpatriotic."  And Americans are nothing if not "patriotic."

I feel good about Obama and his campaign, but I feel better about Cindy Sheehan and others who are really pointing out the nakedness of the Emperor, saying the unspeakable and ripping down the whole lying facade of the war-mongers and fascists who have America by the balls for the time being.



Yikes, that's a lot of Cindy's and Cynthia's .>>> good thing my name isn't Cindy McCain.

":doh

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #102 on: February 29, 2008, 06:37:52 AM »
There were lots of places Juniorbush could have invaded that had repressive governments hat were not Iraq. But Iraq had oil. They falsified the evidence and invaded Iraq for the oil. This should be obvious to anyone with even a tiny remaining shard of cerebral cortex.

Juniorbush and Cheney are hirelings of an oil oligarchy, but the military industrial complex is also thrilled with the idea of remaining in Iraq forever. it matters not whether these two criminals were wicked or just tools. The result is the same.

We should do our best to replace them with people as little like them as possible.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #103 on: February 29, 2008, 09:42:57 AM »
<<There were lots of places Juniorbush could have invaded that had repressive governments hat were not Iraq. But Iraq had oil. They falsified the evidence and invaded Iraq for the oil. This should be obvious to anyone with even a tiny remaining shard of cerebral cortex.>>

Ahhh, but therein lies the problem.

Plane

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Re: Haditha is on Frountline
« Reply #104 on: February 29, 2008, 04:17:57 PM »
My view, which agrees somewhat with my Canadian misguided colleague, is that Bush mas made many miscalculations, including Iraq. Even William F. Buckley agreed.

My view, which MT will disagree with, is that Bush has done so not because of meanness but he simply made incorrect decisions. I believe there was no spite or cruelty or conspiracy theory surrounding oil. Again, I present the idea that Bush really sensed there were WMDs in Iraq, so that is why he authorized the invasion


Once again Prof, something that we're in complete agreement upon.

And a position I (& dare I say, most rationally minded folk as well) tend to concur with as well     


I have to disagree , to say that Bush made bad decisions presupposes that there were better alternative choices availible , I don't see that there were.
\
Maintaining the status quo would have been an inferior decison .
\
Letting Saddam go his own way would have been an inferior decision.

That is how it looks to me .
I am not a geinus or a prophet , so I can't garuntee to you that I am right about these things , but
I don't think that an truely perfect alternative was ever availible.