Author Topic: The Kennedy Glow  (Read 1376 times)

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Cynthia

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The Kennedy Glow
« on: March 02, 2008, 02:45:04 AM »
I hear so much about the Kennedy "glow" more recently on the tube ....not to mention the glow of both JFK and Bobby--i

Such superior leaders....the likes of which we will never see. But, I ask myself Why?

Is there some sort of aura or halo effect that hangs over them because they were glamourous, rich, and another sign of the times we once lived?

I read last week ( I think it was XO)....that JFK really wasn't really such a great president.

This has peeked my curiousity. What did Kennedy do that got him a spot on the half dollar? Why has he been admired along with Lincoln? He wasn't president THAT long.
Profiles in and about Courage?

Civil rights?

What?

 What makes the Kennedy so historically superior and popular?

Just curious..if anyone can contribute to this inquiry.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 02:47:35 AM by Cynthia »

fatman

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 03:07:59 AM »
I read last week ( I think it was XO)....that JFK really wasn't really such a great president.

Nope, that was me

What did Kennedy do that got him a spot on the half dollar? Why has he been admired along with Lincoln?

He had a biographer on staff, a good press agent, and he got shot.

Plane

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2008, 09:17:45 AM »
 First lady glam and adoration from the press.

Many little things like that.

Stray Pooch

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2008, 10:53:38 AM »

 What makes the Kennedy so historically superior and popular?

Just curious..if anyone can contribute to this inquiry.

Like I said in another thread, death was a good career move in their case. 

In fairness, Kennedy provided drive to the dream that resulted in the moon landing.  He faced down the Soviets over missiles in Cuba.  He started the sixties out on an optimistic note.  But he also lit the fuse under Vietnam.  He had Clinton-like appetites (though better taste in women) and Quimby-like family ties. 

Like Reagan, Kennedy was a great communicator.  He connected with his audiences, and had both the look and oratory skills that would have made him succeed in any endeavour.  Letterman does a nightly routine called "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches" the point of which is to compare great executive orators of the past with the verbal gaffes of the present incumbent.  Kennedy is frequently featured. And yes, "Profiles in Courage" and the PT-109 didn't hurt.  Let's face it, the boy had style.

But in the end, Kennedy would have gone the way of all the political world had he not taken a tour of Dallas.  Major events overrule reality all of the time.  Larger-than-life trumps plain old life any day.  In death, his contributions were magnified and his shortcomings swept under the rug.  And of course, everybody gets to wonder if JFK could have pulled off victory in Vietnam, nonviolent solutions to the race problem and a continuation of the prosperity of the fifties, instead of the turbulence of the sixties and the eventual disgrace of Watergate.  That makes it easy to wax philosophical over what might have been.

Martin Luther King, Jr. really was what he is portrayed as today - less the Santa Clausification.  He had the courage to stand up in a time where death was almost the predictable outcome.  He went to jail and suffered many other persecutions for what he believed in.  He contributed more to actual freedom than anyone since the revolution - or at least the civil war - by actually taking it to the streets.  His death was directly a result of those stands.  In effect, he was a martyr who sealed the testimony of his own cause with his blood.  He had shortcomings, too, but his life was not just a politically manufactured TV ad.  He was real.

The Kennedys on the other hand were politicians caught up in turbulent times, and maybe even vast conspiracies.  Had they died in their sleep, they might have been remembered as decent Presidents - maybe even great had the opportunity been given.  Certainly JFK did have achievements in his short term worth remembering.  But the only tentative praise we can give Bobby is that which Fortinbras gave Hamlet:  "he was likely, had he been put on, to have prov'd most royally."   In the end, Camelot was nothing more than legend.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Rich

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2008, 11:47:43 AM »
>> ... compare great executive orators of the past with the verbal gaffes of the present incumbent. <<

Had there been 24/7 news back in Kennedy's day, he may not have been considered such a great orator. simply the amount of speeches and meeting  involved makes mistakes a certainty. But then the MSM doesn't highlight democrats verbal stumbles like they do President Bush's.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2008, 01:20:35 PM »
<<But in the end, Kennedy would have gone the way of all the political world had he not taken a tour of Dallas.  Major events overrule reality all of the time.  Larger-than-life trumps plain old life any day.  In death, his contributions were magnified and his shortcomings swept under the rug. >>

No question that was a big factor.

So was youth.  JFK was the first President born in the 20th Century.  As TIME magazine pointed out, the country was in love with its victorious WWII heroes, but whereas the Eisenhower era represented the generation of WWII generals and theatre commanders, Kennedy represented a turnover to the generation of Lieutenants or other junior officers.  JFK's style personified youth - - he was the first President not to wear a hat in public; he had great hair, a lovely young wife and two cute little kids.  I think at the time I felt that Kennedy was really running against Eisenhower, but not in a hostile way, more like, it's time for you to quit driving, pop, and let your son take over the wheel.  They were both veterans of the same war.  So was Nixon, of course, but in a much less spectacular way.

Like Obama, JFK represented not only youth but change, Nixon, tied too closesly to Ike, represented same-ol' same-ol'.  Americans were growing tired of the stale, confrontational politics of the Cold War and the excesses of the McCarthy era which, paradoxically, discredited the entire idea of confrontational, knee-jerk anti-communism.  The growing civil rights struggle made it clear that the old ways of doing business down South were going to have to change.   Americans were prosperous as never before and their new TV culture reflected a culture of affluence and change.  If anyone remembers the "Pepsi Generation" ads of that time, they were bursting with youthful exuberance and openly challenging the old order.  Americans were really ready for change - - the Birth Control Pill had brought them into the start of a sexual revolution and a new form of music - - rock 'n roll - - was blowing everything else off the charts.  A big wave of change was hitting the nation on all fronts, and JFK was clearly the candidate who would be most conducive to change.

About 25 years ago, Bob Greene (Green?) a popular syndicated columnist wrote a column which he said brought in more mail than anything he'd ever written before.  It was called "I dream of Kennedy," and it related a dream that he had begun having with some frequency - - he was back in the early 60s, JFK was still President, and all was well.  Nothing interesting or dramatic happened in the dream, but it brought a sense of contentment and well-being.  Apparently, a great many people - - myself included, which is why I recall the column so well - - had been having the same dream.  After the turmoil of the mid- and late 60s, the ignominious loss of the Viet Nam War, the succession of charlatan Presidents (Reagan in particular, but not only Reagan,) the non-stop scandals, people were very nostalgic for an era when America was at peace, universally respected, prosperous as never before, bursting with optimism and happy.  I tell my kids, if you want to understand the early 60s of Camelot, don't read any political or historical books or articles, just head to the video store and rent some of the Doris Day-Rock Hudson comedies of the time, rent "Pillow Talk" or "Lover Come Back" or "That Touch of Mink."  If you can find a particularly obscure little film, "What's So Bad About Feeling Good?" then rent that too.  They encapsulate the era.

JFK actually accomplished relatively little as President.  He kept his distance from Martin Luther King and the civil rights struggle, not wanting to alienate the so-called Solid South.  (solidly Democratic)  LBJ, who got both the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act passed, dwarfs all of JFK's accomplishments.  But JFK inspired a bunch of Americans to dream big, he gave them renewed hope and faith in their country and he presided over a very happy and extremely prosperous and optimistic period of American history.

Cynthia

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2008, 01:37:40 PM »

 What makes the Kennedy so historically superior and popular?

Just curious..if anyone can contribute to this inquiry.

Like I said in another thread, death was a good career move in their case. 

In fairness, Kennedy provided drive to the dream that resulted in the moon landing.  He faced down the Soviets over missiles in Cuba.  He started the sixties out on an optimistic note.  But he also lit the fuse under Vietnam.  He had Clinton-like appetites (though better taste in women) and Quimby-like family ties. 

Like Reagan, Kennedy was a great communicator.  He connected with his audiences, and had both the look and oratory skills that would have made him succeed in any endeavour.  Letterman does a nightly routine called "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches" the point of which is to compare great executive orators of the past with the verbal gaffes of the present incumbent.  Kennedy is frequently featured. And yes, "Profiles in Courage" and the PT-109 didn't hurt.  Let's face it, the boy had style.

But in the end, Kennedy would have gone the way of all the political world had he not taken a tour of Dallas.  Major events overrule reality all of the time.  Larger-than-life trumps plain old life any day.  In death, his contributions were magnified and his shortcomings swept under the rug.  And of course, everybody gets to wonder if JFK could have pulled off victory in Vietnam, nonviolent solutions to the race problem and a continuation of the prosperity of the fifties, instead of the turbulence of the sixties and the eventual disgrace of Watergate.  That makes it easy to wax philosophical over what might have been.

Martin Luther King, Jr. really was what he is portrayed as today - less the Santa Clausification.  He had the courage to stand up in a time where death was almost the predictable outcome.  He went to jail and suffered many other persecutions for what he believed in.  He contributed more to actual freedom than anyone since the revolution - or at least the civil war - by actually taking it to the streets.  His death was directly a result of those stands.  In effect, he was a martyr who sealed the testimony of his own cause with his blood.  He had shortcomings, too, but his life was not just a politically manufactured TV ad.  He was real.

The Kennedys on the other hand were politicians caught up in turbulent times, and maybe even vast conspiracies.  Had they died in their sleep, they might have been remembered as decent Presidents - maybe even great had the opportunity been given.  Certainly JFK did have achievements in his short term worth remembering.  But the only tentative praise we can give Bobby is that which Fortinbras gave Hamlet:  "he was likely, had he been put on, to have prov'd most royally."   In the end, Camelot was nothing more than legend.

Thanks Pooch..I hadn't taken the time to read all the posts on this thread last night, as I had just arrived home from my father's 85h birthday party and I was a bit tired. Politics is always a hot topic at my family's house....from sibling to sibling, parent to grandparent. I am a lone wolf. I listen to both sides and I never stop asking questions. I find it very interesting that one of the first things that folks say about a candidate on the "other side" is.....God help us if   ________   get's in. Be she Hillary or he, McCain....

I think we need a huge does of heaven's prayers NOW during this administrations selection of solutions to struggles that aren't getting any better..in fact they are getting worse in some areas.....

We have experienced such turmoil in this country in the past few years and not enough successes, imo.

 I suppose I am being a bit biased because I think we are ruining the public education system not to mention the children who, for the most part, are not only left behind, but ignored and malnurished in terms of a well rounded education.

"The frog in the boiling pot" story comes to mind with any politician's rhetoric.  
Slow burn. Slow manipulation.

Let's all be honest here. This war will probably have consquences Bush didn't expect.......it will quite possibly blend itself into a "buddy system alliance" between Iraq and Iran. That's not a good thing for American soldiers in Iraq, nor for the west. imo.

We need to slowly get out of the pot or we will boil to death.


The bigger question is how will a candidate improve our state of matter.....Is it a balance of all issues-as long as people are pretty pleased with the status quo....Is it force-as long as we are in a fight for freedom we are sitting high on the hog  ..Is it the economy ....do we have enough corporations to boot out the American dreamer?
When will we be satisfied with a politician/candidate/leader?

We can't have it all. So, if we are pleased with the issue that hits us first hand/personally...then...ahhaaa! That's our guy/gal! We all win on at least one point--the point that touched home directly for the individual.
So, in that case for some;
Kennedy was good. Clinton was good. Nixon was good. Carter was good. Nader is good.

The sentiment is true for the country different. We live in a "country different".
Our State capital, Santa Fe has the nickname.....The City Different.
A little bit of everything.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2008, 07:54:15 PM »
I will  agree that Kennedy was more image than real action. There was the immense contrast between Kennedy, who was young and energetic and Eisenhower, who was old, bald and boring. Jackie Kennedy was stylish and always in the news. There was a feeling in the early 1960's that Kennedy would take the country into technological innovation beyond Sputnik, which was a scientific humiliation for Eisenhower and his administration. Kennedy removed the horrid Dulles brothers from State Dept and the CIA.

LBJ did a lot more than JFK to impel progress in the country. Had it not been for the godawful mess in Vietnam, which was started by the Dulleses and LBJ could not resolve, he would have been the greatest president of the century. Of course, LBJ completely lacked the charisma of JFK, His Texas accent had little class compared to JFK';s Boston accent, and he was well, ugly.

Kennedy would never have attained the fame or even his face on the half dollar had he not been shot.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 07:56:31 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2008, 11:26:11 PM »
So, there ya go....I wonder if it's all in that thing we call----"charisma"? Kennedy's wife was the doll of all Barbie dolls, and the model of gorgeousity, not to mention culturally spot on. . . But was the Camelot the Royal platform of all that is presidential? No

LBJ. ...a big man with a heart of gold...You have struck a nerve there. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time and died suffering from such heart break.....

Kennedy had a lot of sex and not one followed his ass --photographers....papparizzie...journalists...and yet, he's the barometer of excellence.

Who knows....but HE did make a genuine speech about Country ..and asking what one should do for it....verses...Clinton, who just did something else for his own needs....and yet, he is supposed to have been a mighty president. WHY??
Can anyone tell me why Clinton was so great?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2008, 11:31:11 PM by Cynthia »

Stray Pooch

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2008, 11:45:57 PM »
Can anyone tell me why Clinton was so great?

Objection.  Assumes facts not in evidence.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Cynthia

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2008, 12:27:40 AM »
Can anyone tell me why Clinton was so great?

Objection.  Assumes facts not in evidence.

Objection over ruled....Some say yes...why?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Kennedy Glow
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2008, 06:00:50 AM »
but HE did make a genuine speech about Country ..and asking what one should do for it....verses...Clinton, who just did something else for his own needs....and yet, he is supposed to have been a mighty president. WHY??
Can anyone tell me why Clinton was so great?
============================================
"Ask not...what your country can do for you, but rather...ask what you can do for your country."

It was actually first spoken by some Roman. Marcus Tullius Cicero, to be specific. Kennedy's speech writer was a classical scholar. We like to think that our politicians are great speakers, but there are very, very few really good speakers among American politicians, and many fewer still who could actually write the speech.

Senators Sam Ervin and Everett Dirkson were great speakers. Kennedy got a B+ for delivery, but not more than a D+ for originality.
I would not rate Juniorbush or Cheney above a D on anything.


What can you do for your country... Lenin could have said what can you do for Mother Russia?

It sounds somehow less inspiring that way. But the thought is the same.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 03:56:58 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."