Author Topic: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary  (Read 3244 times)

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sirs

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Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« on: March 07, 2008, 05:40:44 PM »
Looking for assistance here.  Despite the gender and race, what actually is the difference between the 2?  Not referencing the political baggage each carries, but policy wise, what's the difference?  Someone on the left, help me out here.  What are the substantive differences in policy & implimentation tacts between your 2 marxist candidates?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2008, 05:44:47 PM »
Can't help you out here sirs.  They look an awful lot alike to me, as far as policy and such goes.

sirs

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2008, 11:22:18 AM »
Xo?  Lanya?  You don't wish to provide us with your relevent opinions here?  This is right up your respective allies?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2008, 11:37:02 AM »


Torn between 2 white liberal guilts
By MARK STEYN

Saturday, March 8, 2008

Well, we will have Hillary Clinton to kick around some more, at least for another few weeks. The Mummy (as my radio pal Hugh Hewitt calls her) kicked open the sarcophagus door and, despite the rotting bandages dating back to Iowa, began staggering around, terrorizing folks all over again.

"She is a monster," Barack Obama adviser Samantha Power told a reporter from The Scotsman ? and not a monster in a cute Loch Ness blurry, long-distance kind of way. "You just look at her and think, 'Ergh,'" continued Ms. Power, who subsequently resigned from the campaign.

The New York Times took a different line. The monster is you ? yes, you, the American people. Surveying the Hillary-Barack death match, Maureen Dowd wrote: "People will have to choose which of America's sins are greater, and which stain will have to be removed first. Is misogyny worse than racism, or is racism worse than misogyny?"

Do even Democrats really talk like this? Apparently so. As Ali Gallagher, a white female (sorry, this identity-politics labeling is contagious) from Texas, told the Washington Post: "A friend of mine, a black man, said to me, 'My ancestors came to this country in chains; I'm voting for Barack.' I told him, 'Well, my sisters came here in chains and on their periods; I'm voting for Hillary.'"

When everybody's a victim, nobody's a victim. Poor Ms. Gallagher can't appreciate the distinction between purely metaphorical chains and real ones, or even how offensive it might be to assume blithely that there's no difference whatsoever.

On the other hand, Barack's ancestors didn't come here in chains, either: His mother was a white Kansan, so was presumably undergoing menstrual hell with the Gallagher gals, and his dad was a black man a long way away in colonial Kenya. Indeed, Obama would be the first son of a British subject to serve as president since those slaveholding types elected in the early days of the republic. As some aggrieved black activist sniffed snootily on TV, Barack isn't really an "African American" ? unless by "African American," you mean somebody whose parentage is half-American and half-African, and let's face it, no one would come up with so cockamamie a definition as that.

As for victims, you have to feel sorry for John Edwards. He was born in a mill. He weighed 1.6 pounds and what did his dad get? Another day older and deeper in debt. John spent most of the 19th century as a spindly 7-year-old sweep with rickets, cleaning chimneys in Dickensian London until Fagin spotted him and trained him up as a trial lawyer. And it worked swell in the 2004 primary but it counted for nothing this time round because, even with all that soot on his face, he's still a white boy.

Bill Richardson was the first Hispanic candidate but nobody needs a Hispanic called "Bill Richardson." Hillary assumed she'd be the last identity-politician standing in a field of bouffant poseurs like Joe Biden, only to discover that by the time she got to the final round the Democratic primary process had descended to near-parody ? or, as The New York Times headline put it, a "Duel Of Historical Guilts."

That's one "historical guilt" too many. If it's Historical Guilt vs. Joe Biden and John Edwards, bet on Historical Guilt, and the Democratic base uniting around Hillary and baying "I Am Woman, Hear Me Roar." Instead, it's "I Am Woman, Hear Me Whine About The Unfairness Of It All," as the Clintonites go nuclear and accuse Obama, the ultimate cool black dude, of "imitating Ken Starr," the ultimate uptight squaresville honky.

Which may be a marginally less ineffective line of attack than Gloria Steinem complaining to the New York Observer that way too many Americans want "redemption for racism" but not enough want "redemption for the gynocide." Which may, in turn, be a marginally less fatal shot in the foot than former Carter administration honcho Andrew Young's perplexing boast that Bill Clinton has slept with more black women than Obama.

The Democratic primary season seems to have dwindled down into a psycho remake of "Driving Miss Daisy." The fading matriarch Mizz Hill'ry (Jessica Tandy) doesn't want to give up the keys to the Democratic Party vehicle but the dignified black chauffeur Hokey (Morgan Freeman) insists it'll be a much smoother ride with him in the driver's seat. Yet, just as he thinks the old biddy's resigned to a nomination as Best Supporting Actress, the backseat driver plunges her hat pin into his spine, wrests the wheel away and lurches across the median.

Is the Democratic presidential process a Karl Rove plot?
Right now, neither Mizz Hill'ry nor Hokey can win without the votes of the superdelegates, whose disposition is apparently in flux. The gay superdelegates are apparently sticking to Hillary like the "Hello, Dolly!" waiters to Carol Channing. But others are said to be moving Barackwards.

Are they jumping to a stalled bandwagon? One Historical Guilt gives upscale white liberals a chance to demonstrate their progressive bona fides in unison. Two Historical Guilts shrivels from transformative feel-good fluffiness into sour tribalism. Like Hillary's "I Am Woman" routine, Obama's cult of narcissism ? "We are the change we have been waiting for" ? would have been a shoo-in against Biden, Dodd and Edwards. But the gaseous platitudes wafting up to Cloud Nine are suddenly very earthbound. "Yes, we can!" is an effective pitch if you're the new messiah, not so much when you're pulling in a very humdrum fortysomething percent against a divisive and strikingly inept campaigner.

Go back to that Maureen Dowd line: "People will have to choose which of America's sins are greater."

"People won't, Democrats will," the blogger Orrin Judd responded. "People will elect John McCain in November, demonstrating that we don't share their guilt."

Maybe. But a Democrat nominating process that's a self-torturing satire of upscale liberal guilt confusions will at least give us a laugh along the way.

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/hillary-guilt-black-1994695-historical-obama
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2008, 11:50:29 AM »
So either way, any vote for Hillary OR Obama is because of guilt?

I really don't buy that.

According to the AARP magazine I got yesterday, the No. 1 complaint about the government is incompetence, the idea that we elect the government to do something, and nothing happens, or it happens in an incompetently executed way.

I don't see McCain as being a whit more competent than Obama or Hillary. Plus, he says he would not be disturbed if we had a totally unspecified number of troops in Iraq for 100 years.

McCain may be hardy, but I don't think he'll be around for those 100 years.

I think a general that came up with an Iraq Plan that involved the US staying in Iraq for 100 years would and should be fired.

McCain will do nothing about healthcare aat all. I think his energy policy will look pretty much like the Bush-Cheney policy, which is to say, let ExxonMobil, ShellConoco and ChevronWhatever et al continue supplying petroleum products at whatever price they wish. But he WILL spend a sh*tload on Iraq: count on that.

It is possible that Hillary or Obama will do the same, but at least they do not advocate it as does McCain.
Olebush endorses McCain; Juniorbush endorses McCain. I think that we can conclude that the oligarchy that gave us two Bushes also endorses McCain. These are the jovial fellows who charge your Visacard with a $29 fee if they decide that your payment was a day late on a total bill of $20.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2008, 11:54:42 AM »
So, getting back to the question........what are the policy and tactical implimentation differences between your 2 candidates, Xo??
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2008, 12:03:16 PM »
What are the policy and tactical implimentation differences between your 2 candidates, Xo??

================================================
What do you mean by that?

Which two candidates?

I disagree that either Clinton or Obama could be called "Marxist" in any reasonable sense of the word.

I am not going to vote for either of them out of guilt.

I want to see the Iraq War over as soon as possible. It was a monumental mistake to go into Iraq, and staying there is also a big mistake, and a financial disaster.

I see Clinton as the closest thing to a known quantity: I prospered personally when Bill Clinton was in office, more than I have done before or since. I will be retiring soon, and I see McCain and the GOP as being a huge threat to both Social Security, which I have paid into since I was 16 for all but two years when I was in grad school, as well as my savings, which are in dollars that Juniorbush has basically devalued by fighting a useless and expensive war on credit.

I see Clinton as being more likely to select the sort of advisers that her husband selected, as opposed to odious NeoCons and anything emerging from the Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, Pepperdine University or out from under Grover Norquist's bed or Rush's fevered, paper-crumpling, desk-thumping mind.

« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 12:16:23 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2008, 12:16:25 PM »
"Which two candidates? "

LOL
As if the title isn't obvious.
The dodge begins.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 12:23:30 PM »
So, for Xo, after taking away all the irrelevent obligatory Bush bashing mantra, the difference between his 2 party candidates is apparently "nuance", and that it's assumed Hillary would pick better advisers than Obama might.

So outside of that, apparently there is no difference

Lanya.....anything to add? or disagree with?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2008, 01:57:53 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

R.R.

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 12:28:56 PM »

I prospered personally when Bill Clinton was in office



Please explain. How did you do that?

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 12:57:43 PM »
"? Last Edit: Today at 11:16:23 AM by Xavier_Onassis ? "

Ummmmm

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Rich

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2008, 12:59:34 PM »
For most people, who the president is doesn't matter a hill of beans.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2008, 01:52:19 PM »



I prospered personally when Bill Clinton was in office



Please explain. How did you do that?
===================================
By saving the maximum in my retirement and Roth IRA's and investing in a variety of mutual funds.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2008, 02:03:40 PM »
So, for Xo, after taking away all the irrelvent obligatory Bush bashing mantra, the difference between his 2 party candidates is apparently "nuance", and that it's assumed Hillary would pick better advisers than Obama might.

So outside of that, apparently there is no difference
==========================================================
I think that this could be a rather big difference. Carter and Clinton were ideologically similar, yet their administrations were quite different because of their personal style and the advisers they chose.


I would imagine, as I said, that a Hillary administration could be as close as is likely to happen of a rerun of a Bill Clinton administration, with the important difference that there will be no Monica planed in the WH and no Ken Starr sent to make a big deal about it.

Ideologically, there might be little difference between the two. Both will try to enact some improved form of health care, both will try to have a decent energy policy, both will strive to extract most of the troops from Iraq.

I suspect that Obama has more supporters donating money to him from parts of the Oligarchy, since that is where the big money comes from.

McCain will appoint more rightwing judges like Roberts, Scalia and Alito, none of whom I like one bit.

=====================================
For most people, who the president is doesn't matter a hill of beans.

Most people believe that the Bible is the literal word of God. A large number of them believe that the world began 6000 years ago.
What most people believe is generally a load of crap, because most people are very poorly informed and have no desire to study anything.

It actually makes a HUGE difference who the president is.

If President Gore had been elected as a majority of the people wanted, there would be no troops in Iraq, we might have an energy policy, and the dollar would not have lost so much of its value. I am sure that Saddam Hussein would not have damaged the US even a tiny bit. Maybe 9-11 would have never happened.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Hillary - Obama....Obama - Hillary
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2008, 02:28:57 PM »
I suspect that Obama has more supporters donating money to him from parts of the Oligarchy, since that is where the big money comes from.

Which of course, it's been demonstrated adnauseum that most of the "big" donations from companies and organizations go to the Dems, while most of the small donations go to the GOP.  But let's not rain on Xo's parade.  At least he did answer the original query


McCain will appoint more rightwing judges like Roberts, Scalia and Alito

Wow, he has my vote then
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle