Is the surge working?

[Lanya]

    Iraqi leaders have failed to take advantage of a reduction in violence to make adequate progress toward resolving their political differences, Gen. David H. Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Iraq, said Thursday.

 

    Petraeus, who is preparing to testify to Congress next month on the Iraq war, said in an interview that "no one" in the U.S. and Iraqi governments "feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation," or in the provision of basic public services.

[.........]
from the same article:
Petraeus credited both the mainly Sunni neighborhood patrols known as the Awakening and a cease-fire called by Shiite cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr with helping to bring down violence. The Awakening fighters include former insurgents who say they have turned against al-Qaeda in Iraq, a largely homegrown Sunni group that Petraeus said is in communication with al-Qaeda leaders abroad. The United States is now paying 88,000 members of the Awakening $300 a month to take part in the neighborhood patrols.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/13/AR2008031303793.html

[BT]

The point of the surge was to cut back violence. That seems to have worked.

What the Iraqi govt does with that respite is on them, so yes the surge has achieved its goals, the Iraqi's haven't.

So it goes.

[Xavier_Onassis]

What the Iraqi govt does with that respite is on them, so yes the surge has achieved its goals, the Iraqi's haven't.

So it goes.

=====================================================================================
The surge seems to have reduced the number of Americans killed in Iraq.

The Iraqi government's goal should be in attaining the respect of the Iraqi people as the sole source of law, justice and order in iraq.

It has not come close to doing this.

Iraq is split into a variety of sects and ideologies. The main groups are Shittes, Sunnis, and Kurds. The Kurds want to secede from the central government. The other two want to dominate it, and both are split within themselves.

The Mahdi Army is waiting for the US to leave, so it can clobber the Sunnis, for example. 

The Iraqi government is incapable of enforcing law and order. There is little chance that the Mighty Surge will prevent the Mahdi Army from going beserk when it leaves. And leave it will, eventually.

             

[BT]

Perhaps on day the shiites and sunnis will coexist peacefully like republicans and democrats do it this country.

[sirs]

     touche' Bt

[Christians4LessGvt]

[Lanya]

So General Petraeus is a Democratic leader? 

  Petraeus, who is preparing to testify to Congress next month on the Iraq war, said in an interview that "no one" in the U.S. and Iraqi governments "feels that there has been sufficient progress by any means in the area of national reconciliation," or in the provision of basic public services.

[sirs]

Ummmm, No.  As Bt has referenced, the surge HAS worked, in what it's intention was for....to decrease the overall violence in the region.

This success is in turn giving the POLITICIANS the opportunity to better work their differences off, with the appropriate compromises to each other.  And as exemplified by our own parties, we all see how well differing political parties come together so well.            

[Xavier_Onassis]

So Americans need to continue paying millions of dollars each day until Iraqis are happy with their basic services and the rather gutless politicians ensconced in the Green Zone are respected by Iraqis?

Americans need to continue dying so the electricity, the water and the police in Iraq are functioning to everyone's contentment?

And those of us that think that this war was idiotic to starte with will have to continue paying and seeing your lunatic ads about how or lack of desire to throw good money after bad my=ust continue into the sixth, or seveth or hundredth year?

Isn't that it?

[sirs]

Nope

[Xavier_Onassis]

If that's not it, then what is it?

[fatman]

I had mixed feelings and some misgivings about the surge.  I am glad that it worked, and that casualties are down, and that a lot of those misgivings have not (at least not yet) come to fruition.

That said, XO has a point.  The Iraqi govt is proving itself, time and time again, incapable of coming to a consensus.  I understand your argument sirs, that we caused the mess so we should clean it up, and it's not without merit.  However, at what point do we hold the Iraqi govt accountable for their non-action?  Is there any reason that we should continue to fund their dysfunction with our treasury and the lives of our servicemen?  It seems to me (and this is only my perception) that the Iraqi govt is only going to get their act together when they know that we're either a) out of there or b) on the way out.  They've failed consistently to reach the benchmarks set for them by the US Congress, and I'm not seeing anything in the way of progress in that area.  If I'm wrong feel free to correct me, I won't take it personally, but like I said, I'm not seeing it.

So here's what I propose.  First, come up with an Iraqi Marshall Plan.  Yes, it will be expensive, and maybe unpopular with some here, though probably not as much so as the war currently is.  Second, make certain that the Iraqi govt understands that once that aid is on its way, and that it's guaranteed, that we will be leaving the situation to them.  No exceptions.  Third, leave.  Assess the situation and make changes to the original plan as needed, but don't put the troops in there.  Fund the Iraqi efforts to combat the terrorists that are there if need be, fund their infrastructure so that they know that our intentions are not misguided.  I'm not an economist, but I'm aware that it will be expensive, but probably well worth it in the long run.

Would that work, do you think?

[sirs]

We could work something out

[fatman]

We could work something out

I'm glad that you and I could agree on this, at least in principle.  Why can't Congress and Bush get together on this?  I haven't seen any kind of strategy for Iraq when the US leaves, some of it may be due to not tipping our hand about when we leave, but this is the same kind of nonplanning that I've been griping about.

I do believe that both sides are using the war for political gain, rather than focusing on the best interests of the US, Iraq, and the people in both nations.

And that's worse than despicable.

[sirs]

I do believe that both sides are using the war for political gain, rather than focusing on the best interests of the US, Iraq, and the people in both nations.  And that's worse than despicable.

Personally, I believe Bush and the majority of Republicans are sincerely trying to accomplish the goal of bringing both security & stability in Iraq.  But are allowing the politicians in Iraq fester and fumble much like they do here.  I don't see them as using the war for political gain.  Some yes, but the majority, no.  Where as the Democrat party has been doing so since the get go, claiming how anyone that disagrees with them is by connection being called unpatriotic.  Garbage.  And when you add that they've been in the majority now for coming up on 2 years, and their pledges to end the war are now seen as completely hollow, simply reinforces that position.

So, I do agree that this administration should begin to EMPHASIZE, in no uncertain terms, the urgency of getting their political act together.  We put together a surge, putting far more soldiers at risk, to bring them the window of opportunity to better solve their political differences with appropriate compromises.  We did our part, and unlike the implication Lanya & Xo were trying to claim, the surge has worked.  Now, that said, how long again did it take America to fashion together their new country?  We're asking the Iraqis to do it much faster.  And I believe we need to keep "asking", more emphatically perhaps, but not cross the line to "demanding"

There was a great line in an excellent little movie called The Princess Bride.  The hero's friends went to Miracle Max with their newly "mostly dead" hero.  While Miracle Max is checking out our hero, one of the friends says "we're in a little bit of a hurry".  Max turns to the Spaniard friend and says "Look sonny, you rush a miracle, you get rotten miracles"