Author Topic: Republican Hero  (Read 5963 times)

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BT

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2008, 02:35:45 PM »
Quote
I don't see this as "gotcha", as see this as politics as SOP, and finally the Dem candidate is being held to the same media standard as if it were a Republican.

I don't see where that makes it right. Politics gets in the gutter because we let it get into the gutter.

When does the cycle end?


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2008, 02:44:30 PM »
"I find it entirely unremarkable that the appropriately named "Uncle" Thomas Sowell
opposes Obama, since he seems to dislike all things related to American Black people"


what Professor Sowell dislikes is welfare pimps and those like you that want
to keep blacks in their place with failed programs so that the nanny state
has lots of dependents.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Lanya

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2008, 02:52:19 PM »
"I find it entirely unremarkable that the appropriately named "Uncle" Thomas Sowell
opposes Obama, since he seems to dislike all things related to American Black people"


what Professor Sowell dislikes is welfare pimps and those like you that want
to keep blacks in their place with failed programs so that the nanny state
has lots of dependents.
Welfare Pimps like Bear Stearns?  Wall Street Welfare Pimps.   
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Lanya

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2008, 02:53:04 PM »
Monday March 17, 2008 15:45 EDT
The difference between Jeremiah Wright and radical, white evangelical ministers

(updated below - Update II)

Ross Douthat and Ezra Klein are arguing about whether Jeremiah Wright's statements are comparable to those of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and John Hagee's. To argue that they're not comparable, Douthat -- like most people commenting on this raging controversy -- conflates two entirely separate analytical issues:

    (1) Given their close and long-standing personal relationship, does Wright merit more scrutiny vis-a-vis Obama than white, radical evangelical ministers merit vis-a-vis Republican politicians? and,

    (2) Are the statements of white evangelical ministers subjected to the same standards of judgment as those being applied to Wright's statements?

Even if the answer to (1) is "yes," that doesn't change the fact that the answer to (2) is a resounding "no."

The statement of Wright's which seems to be causing the most upset -- and it's one of two singled out by Douthat -- is his suggestion that there is a causal link between (a) America's constant bombings of and other interference with Middle Eastern countries and (b) the willingness of some Middle Eastern fanatics to attack the U.S. Ever since the 9/11 attacks, we've been told that positing any such causal connection is a sign of vicious anti-Americanism and that all decent people find such questions despicable. This week we learned that no respectable person would subject his children to a pastor who espouses such hateful ideas.

But the idea that America deserves terrorist attacks and other horrendous disasters has long been a frequently expressed view among the faction of white evangelical ministers to whom the Republican Party is most inextricably linked. Neither Jerry Falwell nor Pat Robertson ever retracted or denounced their view that America provoked the 9/11 attacks by doing things to anger God. John Hagee continues to believe that the City of New Orleans got what it deserved when Katrina drowned its residents and devastated the lives of thousands of Americans. And James Inhofe -- who happens to still be a Republican U.S. Senator -- blamed America for the 9/11 attacks by arguing in a 2002 Senate floor speech that "the spiritual door was opened for an attack against the United States of America" because we pressured Israel to give away parts of the West Bank.

The phrases "anti-American" and "America-haters" are among the most barren and manipulative in our entire political lexicon, but whatever they happen to mean on any given day, they easily encompass people who believe that the U.S. deserved the 9/11 attacks, devastating hurricanes and the like. Yet when are people like Falwell, Robertson, Hagee, Inhofe and other white Christian radicals ever described as anti-American or America-hating extremists? Never -- because white Christian evangelicals who tie themselves to the political Right are intrinsically patriotic. Does Douthat believe that those individuals are anti-American radicals and that people who allow their children to belong to their churches are exercising grave errors of judgment?

Those advancing the argument of Douthat's are also wildly understating the magnitude of the association between "anti-American" white evangelicals and Republican leaders. By all accounts, George Bush had private conversations with Pat Robertson about matters as weighty as whether to invade Iraq. Isn't that a big scandal -- that the President is consulting with an American-hating minister -- someone who believes God allowed the 9/11 attacks as punishment for our evil country -- about vital foreign policy decisions? No, it wasn't controversial at all.

John Hagee privately visits with the highest level Middle East officials in the White House and afterwards pronounces that they're in agreement. John McCain shares a stage with Hagee and lavishes him with praise, as Rudy Giuliani did with Pat Robertson. James Inhofe remains a member in good standing in the GOP Senate Caucus. The Republican Party has tied itself at the hip to a whole slew of "anti-American extremists" -- people who believe that the U.S. provoked the 9/11 attacks because God wants to punish us for the evil, wicked nation we've become -- and yet there is virtual silence about these associations.

Nor have the views of televangelist Rod Parsley, one of McCain's self-proclaimed "spiritual advisers," received a fraction of the attention generated by Wright. As both David Corn and Alan Colmes, among others, have documented, Parsley espouses views at least as extreme and radical as Wright, including his proclamation that "America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion [Islam] destroyed." Unlike Wright and Obama -- for whom the former's controversial views are found nowhere near the latter's public or private conduct -- both George Bush and John McCain's Middle Eastern militarism are perfectly consonant with the most maniacal and crazed views of Christian Rapture enthusiasts such as Hagee, Parsley, Inhofe, and Robertson. Yet the controversy created over their close ties is virtually non-existent.

The Republican Party long ago adopted as a central strategy aligning itself with, and granting great influence to, the most radical, "America-hating" white evangelical Christian ministers in the country. They're given a complete pass on that because political orthodoxy mandates that white evangelical Christian ministers are inherently worthy of respect, no matter how extreme and noxious are their views. That orthodoxy stands in stark contrast to the universally enraged reaction to a few selected snippets from the angry rantings of a black Christian Minister. What accounts for that glaring disparity?

UPDATE: Steve M. notes that the Bush White House, in addition to consulting with Robertson, also consulted with the anti-American Jerry Falwell, including on the question of whom the administration should nominate to the Supreme Court. It even appointed a White House liaison for Falwell. When Falwell died, President Bush "said he was deeply saddened by Falwell's death, calling him 'a man who cherished faith, family and freedom.'"

Shouldn't we be very concerned about American children hearing our President praise an American-hating radical who believes that our country is a sick and wicked land that God wanted to be victimized by the 9/11 attacks? Again, the issue here is number (2) above, not number (1).

UPDATE II: Frank Schaeffer, son of highly influential Religious Right figure Francis Schaeffer, writes (h/t FPL-Dan):

    When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

He goes on to chronicle his father's long history of extreme "America-hating" statements, ones which never caused Republicans to repudiate him, and says: "Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits."

Yet Schaeffer, like hordes of similar, America-hating white Christian ministers, are celebrated as cherished figures among the very same right-wing faction feigning such outrage and offense over Wright's far more mild statements. White, right-wing Christian evangelical rage against America is understandable, respectable, and noble. Liberal black Christian anger towards America is scary, subversive, and despicable.

-- Glenn Greenwald
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/17/wright/index.html
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Rich

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2008, 02:57:56 PM »
>>I don't see where that makes it right. Politics gets in the gutter because we let it get into the gutter.<<

I don't see how this can be called gutter politics. Gutter politics is making someone resign from house leadership because he made a joke about Sen. Strom Thurmond which was made into something it was not. This isn't condemning someone as racist because they speak in front of a group you don't like. Which by the way is interesting considering that we now find out that ALL Black churches preach this kind of racist hatred.

As I said before, this isn't Billy Carter. You can't choose your family, but you can choose your church. If your church preaches racism, hatred, and lies while you sit there for twenty years nodding your head, it's calls your beliefs, your judgment, and your character into legitimate question.

Look at Michelle Obama. She's said some pretty hateful things about America. Looks like she's been paying attention.

BT

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2008, 03:00:30 PM »
I see. So since folks went after Lott, you feel justified in going after Obama.

Was going after Lott the right thing to do? If not, why is it right to go after Obama?


Rich

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2008, 03:02:24 PM »
>>Welfare Pimps like Bear Stearns?  Wall Street Welfare Pimps.<<

Prior to the Ohio primary Obama was running radio and television advertisements here claiming that when he was elected he would give tax breaks to corporations. He would give these tax breaks as incentive to stay in America so people would have jobs.

Sounds good to me, but (gasp) I'm a Republican and this sounds very much like a Republican idea.

How do democrats square this idea when they are constantly complaining evils of corporate America and corporate welfare?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 03:08:13 PM by Rich »

Rich

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2008, 03:06:52 PM »
>>I see. So since folks went after Lott, you feel justified in going after Obama. Was going after Lott the right thing to do? If not, why is it right to go after Obama?<<


No, I don't think you do see actually.

And yes, I'm justified in going after Obama, Mrs. Clinton, and any democrat I please. Especially when they have been proven to be doing business with racists. I've never seen the percentage in being all nicey nice with people who'll smile in your face and then cut your throat the first chance they get. I learned that years ago, and I think (or hope) Sen. McCain learned that too.

sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2008, 03:15:37 PM »
Quote
I don't see this as "gotcha", as see this as politics as SOP, and finally the Dem candidate is being held to the same media standard as if it were a Republican.

I don't see where that makes it right. Politics gets in the gutter because we let it get into the gutter.  When does the cycle end?

It ends when both sides stop.  It doesn't end with unilateral disarming, and never has.  And as I've already opined, I don't even see this as the GOP doing this to Obama, as this info on he & his pastor has been known for over a year.  It only got the media traction when.....Hillary's #'s were tanking.  I'm only supportive of the scrutiny, since it would have been 10x greater, had this been a Republican's racist pastor
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 03:45:28 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2008, 03:21:26 PM »
Welfare Pimps like Bear Stearns?  Wall Street Welfare Pimps.

Yes exactly, I doubt Professsor Sowell supports a Bear Stearns bailout
any more that he supports your failed policies of the nanny state. Both
only encourage more piss poor behaviors and results.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2008, 04:24:36 PM »
what Professor Sowell dislikes is welfare pimps and those like you that want
to keep blacks in their place with failed programs so that the nanny state
has lots of dependents.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------]
What could you possibly know about what I want.  I want people of all sorts to fulfill their ideals by whatever legal means they see fit.

You are the one that wants of outlaw abortions, by the way. Tell me that this does not lead to more unwanted dependents, I dare you.

What I dislike about Sowell is that he has no solutions that would ever work for anyone. No one in Black America, including Bill Cosby has ever expressed support for anything he has ever said. He's just a rightwing hireling like Limbaugh, useless for any purpose other than illustrating that Black people have the ability to be mindless crackpots.

Sowell is pretty much a rather dumber version of Alan Keyes. A man whose time has never come and will never come. A Black Bob Taft.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2008, 04:41:22 PM »
You are the one that wants of outlaw abortions, by the way. Tell me that this does not lead to more unwanted dependents, I dare you.

We can reduce unwanted dependents by raising the age at which children can be killed. Why not take it all the way to 13 or 14 years?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2008, 04:57:46 PM »
What could you possibly know about what I want.

It's obvious from your leftist postings that you want to steal
from producers and give to non-producers and for the US
to "cut & run" and face defeat in many areas. You are
the typical Blame America hating liberal.

I want people of all sorts to fulfill their ideals by whatever legal means they see fit.

Then allow them school vouchers if they so choose. Quit standing in front of the school
house like Democrat George Wallace did trying to keep blacks out of schools,
except now you are the Democrat trying to keep them in failing schools.



You are the one that wants of outlaw abortions, by the way.

Wrong again.
I have never stated I want abortions outlawed, because I don't.

Tell me that this does not lead to more unwanted dependents, I dare you.

Saying that ending abortion would lead to more unwanted dependents is like saying by
killing everyone in nursing homes it would lead to less dependents on Medicare.

What I dislike about Sowell is that he has no solutions that would ever work for anyone.

He has all the solutions and explains them quite well in his books.

No one in Black America, including Bill Cosby has ever expressed support for anything
he has ever said.


Wow and look at where that has got them!

He's just a rightwing hireling like Limbaugh, useless for any purpose other than
illustrating that Black people have the ability to be mindless crackpots.


You should tell Stanford, one of the most respected Universities in the world
that you know more than they do and they should not have someone so
"useless" as a Professor. Yeah XO is smarter than Stanford.  ::)

Sowell is pretty much a rather dumber version of Alan Keyes.

God you are such a racist it isn't even funny.
If someone doesn't agree with XO they must be "dumb".
They cant just arrive at an educated different conclusion.
No they must be "dumb".
Yeah Dr. Sowell and Dr. Keyes are "dumb".

Dr. Thomas Sowell: earned a  B.A. in Economics from Harvard , magna cum laude,
an M.A. in Economics from Columbia University, and a Ph.D. in Economics from the
University of Chicago. Sowell has taught at prominent American universities including
Howard University, Cornell University, Brandeis University, UCLA and Stanford University.

Dr. Alan Keyes: Keyes BA in Government Affairs from Harvard University
and also earned his PhD in government affairs from Harvard University.

YEAH XO REAL "DUMB"  ::)



« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 06:03:02 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

BT

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2008, 05:15:34 PM »
Quote
Was going after Lott the right thing to do?

Did you answer that question?


sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2008, 05:45:22 PM »
It's more about judgement Bt.  That's why this is in no way a "gotCha moment".  Here's a fella that didn't have the know-it-all to kindly step aside with his mentor and politely tell him how wrong he is with these outlandish and racist claims.  Now, if a fella doesn't have the conviction and judgement to address his racist pastor, and tell him when he's wrong, (much less, simply walk out), what makes us (the electorate) think he's gonna have the conviction & judgement as President, to tell one of the dictators on this globe that they're wrong, if they pull some Saddam-like act of invasion?
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 06:13:57 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle