Author Topic: Republican Hero  (Read 5974 times)

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Lanya

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Republican Hero
« on: March 17, 2008, 02:39:17 PM »

Obama's Minister Committed "Treason" But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero

Frank Schaeffer Sun Mar 16, 11:58 PM ET

When Senator Obama's preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father -- Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer -- denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.


Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father's footsteps) rail against America's sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the "murder of the unborn," has become "Sodom" by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, "under the judgment of God." They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama's minister's shouted "controversial" comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.

Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation's sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party. (This was while I was my father's sidekick before I dropped out of the evangelical movement altogether.) We were rewarded for our "stand" by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father's immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto. It sailed under the radar of the major media who, back when it was published in 1980, were not paying particular attention to best-selling religious books. Nevertheless it sold more than a million copies.

Here's Dad writing in his chapter on civil disobedience:

If there is a legitimate reason for the use of force [against the US government]... then at a certain point force is justifiable.



And this:

In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools... There is an obvious parallel between this and the situation in Russia [the USSR]. And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union....

Then this:

There does come a time when force, even physical force, is appropriate... A true Christian in Hitler's Germany and in the occupied countries should have defied the false and counterfeit state. This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States, the issue of abortion... It is time we consciously realize that when any office commands what is contrary to God's law it abrogates it's authority. And our loyalty to the God who gave this law then requires that we make the appropriate response in that situation...

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it. Dad was a frequent guest of the Kemps, had lunch with the Fords, stayed in the White House as their guest, he met with Reagan, helped Dr. C. Everett Koop become Surgeon General. (I went on the 700 Club several times to generate support for Koop).

Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad's statements.

Take Dad's words and put them in the mouth of Obama's preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words "godly" and "prophetic" and a "call to repentance."

We Republican agitators of the mid 1970s to the late 1980s were genuinely anti-American in the same spirit that later Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (both followers of my father) were anti-American when they said God had removed his blessing from America on 9/11, because America accepted gays. Falwell and Robertson recanted but we never did.

My dad's books denouncing America and comparing the USA to Hitler are still best sellers in the "respectable" evangelical community and he's still hailed as a prophet by many Republican leaders. When Mike Huckabee was recently asked by Katie Couric to name one book he'd take with him to a desert island, besides the Bible, he named Dad's Whatever Happened to the Human Race? a book where Dad also compared America to Hitler's Germany.

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister's words, is staggering. They are the same people who argue for the right to "bear arms" as "insurance" to limit government power. They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as "fallen away from God" at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker, including the annual meeting of the ultraconservative Southern Baptist convention, and the religious broadcasters that I addressed.

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the "progressive" Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine. As Jane Smiley writes in the Huffington Post "[The Clinton's] are, indeed, now part of the 'vast right wing conspiracy.' (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-smiley/im-already-against-the-n_b_90628.html )

Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the "scandal" of Obama's preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama's minister had a valid point. There is plenty to yell about these days.

Frank Schaeffer is a writer and author of "CRAZY FOR GOD-How I Grew Up As One Of The Elect, Helped Found The Religious Right, And Lived To Take All (Or Almost All) Of It Back

http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20080317/cm_huffpost/091774;_ylt=Ah33hrrjdCETr05IpvsKTr.s0NUE
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2008, 10:56:03 PM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Plane

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2008, 10:59:14 PM »
  I think I can see a diffrence.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2008, 10:07:59 AM »
That photo is just propagandistic phony crap, C4.
It is beneath even your abnormally low standards.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Rich

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2008, 12:05:32 PM »
The left is spinning hard on this one, but it's getting no traction. Polls are showing Obama has a big problem here.

Anyody hear Mrs. Clinton commenting on this?

<chuckle>

Not a word.

sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2008, 12:08:08 PM »
Minus the irrelevent attempt at Lanya to paint some "they do it do" picture, Obama is making perhaps his make it or break it speech right now.

And for the record, I don't thing Obama holds a racist or hatemongering thought as his pastor does.  I think, that as a young up and coming politician-to-be, he turned down what could have been a substantially lucrative law career to embrace the black community, and chose the biggest one in the Chicago area.  What floors me, is why didn't he walk out the 1st time he heard some of the racist garbage coming out of Wright's mouth?  Again, I don't think it's because he agreed with it, i think it's because he concluded he needed to be part of the one of the largest African American congregations in the Chicago area.

Unfortunately for Obama, the chickens came home to roost
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 12:13:53 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2008, 12:14:57 PM »
Double Life of Barack Obama
by Thomas Sowell


There is something both poignant and galling about the candidacy of Barack Obama.

Any American, regardless of party or race, has to find it heartening that the country has reached the point where a black candidate for president of the United States sweeps so many primaries in states where the overwhelming majority of the population is white.

We have all seen the crowds enthralled by Barack Obama's rhetoric and theatrical style.

Many of his supporters put their money where their mouths were, so that this recently arrived senator received more millions of dollars in donations than candidates who have been far more visible on the national stage for far more years.

That's the good news. The bad news is that Barack Obama has been leading as much of a double life as Eliot Spitzer.

While talking about bringing us together and deploring "divisive" actions, Senator Obama has for 20 years been a member of a church whose minister, Jeremiah Wright, has said that "God Bless America" should be replaced by "God damn America" among many other wild and even obscene denunciations of American society, including blanket racist attacks on whites.

Nor was this an isolated example. Fox News Channel has played tapes of various sermons of Jeremiah Wright, and says that it has tapes with hours more of the same.

Wright's actions matched his words. He went with Louis Farrakhan to Libya and Farrakhan received an award from his church.

Sean Hannity began reporting on Jeremiah Wright back in April of 2007. But the mainstream media saw no evil, heard no evil, and spoke no evil.

Now that the facts have come out in a number of places, and can no longer be suppressed, many in the media are trying to spin these facts out of existence.

Spin number one is that Jeremiah Wright's words were "taken out of context." Like most people who use this escape hatch, those who say this do not explain what the words mean when taken in context.

In just what context does "God damn America" mean something different?

Spin number two is that Barack Obama says he didn't hear the particular things that Jeremiah Wright said that are now causing so much comment.

It wasn't just an isolated remark. Nor were the enthusiastic responses of the churchgoers something which suggests that this anti-American attitude was news to them or something that they didn't agree with.

If Barack Obama was not in church that particular day, he belonged to that church for 20 years. He made a donation of more than $20,000 to that church.

In all that time, he never had a clue as to what kind of man Jeremiah Wright was? Give me a break!

You can't be with someone for 20 years, call him your mentor, and not know about his racist and anti-American views.

Neither Barack Obama nor his media spinmeisters can put this story behind him with some facile election-year rhetoric. If Senator Obama wants to run with the rabbits and hunt with the hounds, then at least let the rabbits and the hounds know that.

The fact that Obama talks differently than Jeremiah Wright does not mean that his track record is different. Barack Obama's voting record in the Senate is perfectly consistent with the far-left ideology and the grievance culture, just as his wife's statement that she was never proud of her country before is consistent with that ideology.

Senator Barack Obama's political success thus far has been a blow for equality. But equality has its down side.

Equality means that a black demagogue who has been exposed as a phony deserves exactly the same treatment as a white demagogue who has been exposed as a phony.

We don't need a president of the United States who got to the White House by talking one way, voting a very different way in the Senate, and who for 20 years followed a man whose words and deeds contradict Obama's carefully crafted election-year image.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=YTQ0MDI5ZDE5MTcyYjBmMjI0MmVhZjhiOTM2MDI5NzM=
« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 12:33:05 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2008, 12:52:13 PM »
It is astonishing that Obama's pastor, mentor, and spiritual leader over the last 2+decades epitomizes precisely the opposite message Obama has been preaching on the presidential stump.  Go figure      :-\
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2008, 01:33:05 PM »
What is amazing is the attempt to hold a candidate responsible for the utterances of a person they have no control over. And the demands for denouncing these same folks is just silly.

I understand some Republicans want to keep the rift in the democrat party alive by building up hillary and tearing down obama and if the tide shifts, switch.

And i understand the dems getting all defensive and pointing out that their are RW aligned folks who have said equal or worse.

And i understand the media ants to keep controversy alive because frankly it draws eyeballs i increases ad revenue.

But i don't see where what joe blow says has any bearing on the different visions being sold by the candidates on their quest for office. 




sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2008, 01:44:19 PM »
What is amazing is the attempt to hold a candidate responsible for the utterances of a person they have no control over. And the demands for denouncing these same folks is just silly.

Bt, please.  This isn't about denouncing some joe bloe off the street or some minister in Ohio you have no connections with.  This is about denouncing someone who is intimate in your spiritual, and likely political growth, with the obvious potential of shaping your perceptions.  At least that's what most Pastors attempt to do

While I agree it shouldn't be an issue, it is, because of the standards placed on Republican/conservative candidates, where simply speaking at a once racially insensitive school gets you branded a racist.  This pastor is not 6degrees seperated from Obama, he's his mentor, his spiritual ADVISOR.  And now what we've all heard the Pastor "spiritually" preaches, it's no stretch for the electorate to scratch their head in bewilderment as to why, on God's green earth, did he remain a member of this racist pastor's congregation??  To me, that's not leadership or conviction.  It's pandering at its core.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Rich

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2008, 02:04:18 PM »
>>This is about denouncing someone who is intimate in your spiritual, and likely political growth, with the obvious potential of shaping your perceptions.<<

Of course it is. Rev. Wright is an America hating racist. Calling him your counselor means you have an America hating racist for a counselor. This man visited Qaddafi with Farrakhan and honored the racist Farrakhan with a lifetime achievement award. This isn't Billy Carter. Obama chose this guy. Then to excuse this because of past grievances, I find ridiculous. It's men like Wright who perpetuate the racial divide. There's very little I can do to bring peace between the races when Wright is preaching hate, lies and racial division.

I think you're a little to quick to apologize for Obama on this one BT. Southern guilt? You should have none.

BT

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2008, 02:10:45 PM »
Sirs,

This country has much on its plate.

Frankly I think it counterproductive to continue to play gotcha games with finger pointings of hypocrisy, just because the other side does it.

No one is considering voting for Wright. No one is considering voting for Falwell or Robertson or the RW preacher of the day.

On one level they are voting for a vision or direction for the country, on another level they are voting for who controls the franchise and who gets to dole out the goodies.

As i said i understand the motivations of some partisans from both sides. I liken it to wrestlers grabbing the mike from the announcer and one upping each other with trash talk. I guess it ca be entertaining and it goes along with the idea that politics is show biz, but this particular attack on Obama is just an irritating meaningless arc in the script.

Just my opinion on the matter. And Rich I'm not apologizing for anyone. I just don't think in the larger picture Wright means anything.


Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2008, 02:19:09 PM »
It is amazing how some people think this is not "a piece of the puzzle" in painting a picture of Obama's judgement. After-all that is what the American People are deciding on, whose judgement they trust. Is it the whole enchilada? Well no. Is it and will it be a factor? I think so, and rightfully so. There are people at my office that were considering Obama and now will not vote for Obama. I honesty believe the more the American People see the real Obama the "rock star" facade will fade. If Obama's real views are exposed I think the American People are not going to like what they see.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2008, 02:21:53 PM »
This country has much on its plate.  Frankly I think it counterproductive to continue to play gotcha games with finger pointings of hypocrisy, just because the other side does it.

This is obviously where we disagree.  I don't see this as "gotcha", as see this as politics as SOP, and finally the Dem candidate is being held to the same media standard as if it were a Republican.  Albeit way late in the game, but I think we can thank the Clintons for that.  And perhaps Obama's speech today (I didn't hear it) helped put alot of this to rest.  But to say he didn't need denouce his pastor's commentary is a fallacy in this day and age.  Not when said racist is your spiritual advisor and mentor

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Republican Hero
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2008, 02:26:15 PM »
Wright is not preaching racial division. He merely says what a large number of Black people say, that the particular White guys that actually run this country are not always decent human beings, because they start wars, plunder countries poorer than their own, and tend to think that the world belongs to them.

Of course, as BT says, Wright is not running for anything, and if Obama were President, he certainl;y would not be taking orders from Wright or Farrakhan or Khadaffi. This whole Write thing is just a big dumb flap. And it is essentially meaningless.

The plan is to tear down Obama so that he won't get the nomination, and then holler bloody Hell about how Hillary is a racist that denied the nomination to Obama. It's not that subtle a plan.

But this country does not need any more bazillions of our dollars sucked down the rathole that is Iraq, which is what McCain will produce.

I find it entirely unremarkable that the appropriately named "Uncle" Thomas Sowell opposes Obama, since he seems to dislike all things related to American Black people.
 

« Last Edit: March 18, 2008, 02:30:08 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."