Author Topic: Harvard studies shows the Left's anti-Iraq liberation agenda kills US soldiers  (Read 8023 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0


Analysis: Debate on Iraq fuels insurgency

March 19, 2008
By SHAUN WATERMAN
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor

WASHINGTON, March 19 (UPI) -- Researchers at Harvard say that public debates about the rights and wrongs of the U.S. occupation of Iraq have a measurable "emboldenment effect" on insurgents there, and periods when there is a lot of media coverage about the issue are followed by small rises in the number of attacks.

The researchers, a political scientist and a health economist, studied data about insurgent attacks and U.S. media coverage up to November 2007, tracking what they called "anti-resolve statements," either by U.S. politicians or in the form of reports about American public opinion on the issue.

The study, published this month by the National Bureau of Economic Research, uses quantitative analysis, a statistical tool employed by economists, to empirically test for the first time the widely held nostrum that public criticism of U.S. policy in Iraq encourages insurgents there.

"We find that in periods immediately after a spike in anti-resolve statements, the level of insurgent attacks increases," the study says. In Iraqi provinces that were broadly comparable in social and economic terms, attacks increased between 7 percent and 10 percent.

The study also found that attacks increased more in parts of Iraq where there is greater access to international news media, which its authors say increases the credibility of their findings.

"We identify a possible emboldenment effect by comparing whether anti-resolve statements ? have differential impacts on the rate of insurgent attacks in areas with higher and lower access to information about U.S. news. This difference-in-difference approach isolates the effect of information about the level of U.S. resolve from the many other possible sources contributing to variation in insurgent attacks."

The researchers conclude that the increases in attacks are a necessary cost of the way democratic societies fight wars and say they are concerned that the research may be seized upon by the Iraq war's supporters to try and silence its critics.

"We are a little bit worried about that," Jonathan Monten of the Belfer Center at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government told United Press International in an interview. "Our data suggests that there is a small, but measurable cost" to "anything that provides information about attitudes towards the war."

But he added the cost was outweighed by the benefits of vigorous debate about military undertakings.

"There's a body of research, which we cite ? that suggests that public debate about strategy helps the military to fight wars more effectively," he said.

His co-author, Radha Iyengar, a Robert Wood Johnson Scholar in health policy research at Harvard, said their data also showed that the insurgents in Iraq are rational actors -- responding strategically to changing perceptions of their enemy's will to fight -- rather than fanatics irrationally driven by ideology alone.

"We hope the main takeaway (from the study) would be in terms of counterinsurgency policy," she said, adding that seeing insurgents, and insurgent groups, as rational actors should underpin "an increased use of deterrence-based strategies" and the employment of more "carrot-and-stick approaches" by the U.S. military.

Nevertheless, the study's headline findings led some war critics to question their methodology, and in particular, the way they count "anti-resolve statements."

To avoid making their own subjective judgments about what might constitute such a statement, the researchers told UPI, they counted two kinds of news stories. In addition to "the release of major polls regarding American attitudes towards the war in Iraq," their index includes mentions by senior Bush administration officials of "statements or actions by other U.S. political figures that might encourage violent extremist groups in Iraq."

"To avoid having to determine ourselves whether a statement was 'anti-resolve' or not" Iyengar said, the researchers decided the best path was effectively "letting the administration make ? the judgment call."

She acknowledged that the measurement might seem arbitrary, but added that the point of the survey was not to examine the actual numbers, but rather to look at trends.

The study "relies on differences over time and space," she said. "We are comparing changes, not absolute numbers," so the important thing about the measurements was that they be "consistent over time."

The study has been submitted to the Quarterly Journal of Economics for peer review.

http://www.upi.com/International_Security/Emerging_Threats/Analysis/2008/03/19/analysis_debate_on_iraq_fuels_insurgency/4664/
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
With all due respect CU4, one doesn't require a study to grasp the concept that when you claim America is in an illegal war, an illegal occupation, and that those fighting us "foreign invaders" are really fighting for their own country, like our American Minutemen, it's gonna get passed on and facilitate the act of killing more of our low hanging fruit rapists
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
but sirs "with all due respect" isn't it a surprise to see this study from Harvard?
yes i agree with you
but usually on these kind of obvious conclusions the Left keenly uses silence for their chess move
as opposed to releasing this kind of data
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
but sirs "with all due respect" isn't it a surprise to see this study from Harvard?

Well, you got me there.  Hard to rail on them as some right wing in-the-pocket GOP organization

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
If it were not for Juniorbush the number of US troops killed in Iraq would be ZERO.

It wasn't a necessary war.

Now it's a mess, but the blame is with the fools that started it./
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
That would be Saddam, then
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
What? You mean when Saddam invaded Manhattan? Get effing serious.

Juniorbush started this thing. If soldiers died in an unnecessary war, he is to blame.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
What? You mean when Saddam invaded Manhattan?

Ummm, no, when Saddam failed to comply with UN 1441.  Serious consequences then ensued as a result of HIM, and HIS failures


If soldiers died in an unnecessary war, he (Bush) is to blame.

Good thing it wasn't unnecessary, then
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Interesting to see what gets highlighted in bold and what doesn't.

Quote
The researchers conclude that the increases in attacks are a necessary cost of the way democratic societies fight wars and say they are concerned that the research may be seized upon by the Iraq war's supporters to try and silence its critics.

"We are a little bit worried about that," Jonathan Monten of the Belfer Center at Harvard's Kennedy School of Government told United Press International in an interview. "Our data suggests that there is a small, but measurable cost" to "anything that provides information about attitudes towards the war."

But he added the cost was outweighed by the benefits of vigorous debate about military undertakings.

"There's a body of research, which we cite ... that suggests that public debate about strategy helps the military to fight wars more effectively," he said.

Nothing in that section was made bold text, but it seems very much worth pointing out, particularly when the subject line is "Harvard studies shows the Left's anti-Iraq liberation agenda kills US soldiers". And particularly considering no soldier in Iraq has ever been shot by an "anti-Iraq liberation agenda". Keep the blame for killing where it belongs, with actual people who do the actual killing.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
"Interesting to see what gets highlighted in bold and what doesn't"

Yes I suppose it is "interesting" for me to decide what I feel are points I want to highlight in an article I post.

 ::)
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
"Keep the blame for killing where it belongs, with actual people who do the actual killing"

LOL
I wonder if you can you convince XO of this?
I think he believes Bush is to "blame for the killings".
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

Yes I suppose it is "interesting" for me to decide what I feel are points I want to highlight in an article I post.


What gets highlighted compared to what doesn't says something about your thinking process. In much the same way, I'm sure the excerpts I choose to post from various articles says something about my thinking process.

In any case, my point remains, the article taken in context and as a whole does not support the subject line.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

I wonder if you can you convince XO of this?
I think he believes Bush is to "blame for the killings".


Deflection. It doesn't alter the fact that you made "Harvard studies shows the Left's anti-Iraq liberation agenda kills US soldiers" the subject line.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
What gets highlighted compared to what doesn't says something about your thinking process.

Well duh, lol, thats why I highlight it, to show thats where my points lie.

In any case, my point remains, the article taken in context and as a whole does not support the subject line.

Well thats your opinion, I think the article very much does support the subject line.
 
 
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Christians4LessGvt

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11139
    • View Profile
    • "The Religion Of Peace"
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Deflection. It doesn't alter the fact that you made "Harvard studies shows the Left's anti-Iraq liberation agenda kills US soldiers" the subject line.
 
No it is not at all a deflection. It's called exposing a fallacy in the logic of one of your statements.

And I know it doesn't alter that I made the subject line, because I didn't intend it to alter that fact
because I don't need to deflect what I see as being true.

I am going to bed now. Will respond to your spin tomorrow.
 
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987