Author Topic: Second Amendment right to revolution?  (Read 2740 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #15 on: March 21, 2008, 02:44:52 PM »
My personal favorite is the .303 British, but I was actually thinking of the .30-06.

Interesting factoid: You can fire a .303 British round out of a rifle chambered for .30-06, but not the opposite.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

fatman

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #16 on: March 21, 2008, 03:07:51 PM »
Interesting factoid: You can fire a .303 British round out of a rifle chambered for .30-06, but not the opposite.

I've heard that, but have never had the guts to try it.  I've had exactly one .303, and I hated it.  It was probably more the gun than the caliber, but I loathed that thing after running a couple of rounds through it.  I use a Krag for deer hunting, and a .338 Win for elk.  Grouse and pheasant get an old 20 gauge side by side that I picked up at, of all places, a yard sale.


You want sheer power in addition to accuracy out of a rifle bullet? Try the .45-70 or .45-90. ;-)

Well, plan on getting your shoulder reset after you dislocate it too  ;) .  I have a .45-70 lever action, and for sheer power, yeah, it's great, but it really doesn't have much in the way of range, and is far too large to hunt anything in the lower 48, though it'd probably be good for moose.  The one time I went for moose I shot it with a .338, and had to hit it three times before it went town.  Moose is tasty, and there's a lot of meat, but I really didn't like that grizzly bear sitting 40 yards away while I was field dressing that moose.  It's a pretty creepy experience, especially if you've ever seen one run in person, and not on tv.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #17 on: March 21, 2008, 03:15:38 PM »
I agree. Watching a bear run at YOU is distinctly different that watching one run at the cameraman on TV.

I think I'd pick the latter.

Most people can run faster than a deceased moose. I am assuming that this is why you are here to tell the tale.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2008, 03:21:35 PM »
I've had exactly one .303, and I hated it.  It was probably more the gun than the caliber, but I loathed that thing after running a couple of rounds through it.

Which rifle did you have? I have three Lee-Enfields chambered in .303.

Well, plan on getting your shoulder reset after you dislocate it too  ;) .  I have a .45-70 lever action, and for sheer power, yeah, it's great, but it really doesn't have much in the way of range, and is far too large to hunt anything in the lower 48, though it'd probably be good for moose.

My father has the split breach Springfield ("trapdoor") chambered in .45-70. You have to be prone or kneeling to shoot it - if you're standing when you pull the trigger, you won't be for long... According to the Army, this rifle & round combination has a lethal range of 3,500 yds. Why do you consider it to be "not much in the way of range"?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2008, 04:08:59 PM »

fatman

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2008, 04:58:30 PM »
Which rifle did you have? I have three Lee-Enfields chambered in .303.

Mine is a Lee-Enfield SMLE, or offically a Lee-Enfield Short Magazine Rifle MkIII .  My major gripe with it is that it's just very uncomfortable to shoot, my personal opinion is that the barrel is too light and the balance is off, but I'm no gun smith and not even much of a gun buff, so it's hard to say for certain.

My father has the split breach Springfield ("trapdoor") chambered in .45-70. You have to be prone or kneeling to shoot it - if you're standing when you pull the trigger, you won't be for long...

Mine is just a standard lever action, no trapdoor.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those old split breaches worth a lot of money?  Seems like I've heard or read that somewhere.

According to the Army, this rifle & round combination has a lethal range of 3,500 yds. Why do you consider it to be "not much in the way of range"?

When I first read this, I thought "Ah, what a bunch of BS," from the experience I've had shooting mine.  The bullet drop and trajectory arc is drastic, from my experience.  So I did some digging online, and lo and behold:

Quote
The minimum acceptable accuracy of the .45-70 from the 1873 Springfield was approximately 4 inches at 100 yards, however, the heavy, slow-moving bullet had a "rainbow" trajectory, the bullet drop measured in multiple yards (meters) at ranges greater than a few hundred yards (meters). A skilled shooter, firing at known range, could consistently hit targets that were 6 X 6 feet at 600 yards ? the Army standard target, and a skill mainly of value in mass or volley fire, since accurate aimed fire on a man-sized target was effective only to about 300 yards.

After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced, the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier 500 grain (32.5 g) bullet. The heavier 500 grain bullet produced significantly superior ballistics, and could reach ranges of 3,500 yards (3200 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet would produce lethal injuries at 3,500 yards. At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at roughly a 30 degree angle, penetrating 3 one inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveling to a depth of 8 inches (20 cm) into the sand of the Sandy Hook beach. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volleyed fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire[5].

 
So I went in looked in my gun case, and sure enough, I'm shooting 405's.  So on this I think that we're both correct.
The article goes on to state however:

Quote
The main limitation of the .45-70 is the relatively low velocity which puts a practical limit on shots at game beyond 120 meters or so, despite its ability to kill at many times that distance. The trajectory of the bullets is very steep, which makes for a very short point blank range. This was not a significant problem at the time of introduction, as the .45-70 was a fairly flat-shooting cartridge for its time. Shooters of these early cartridges had to be keen judges of distance, wind and trajectory to make long shots; the Sharps Rifle in larger calibers such as .50-110 was used at ranges of 1000 yards[9].

I will have to try out the 500 grain loads, perhaps that will make a difference.

Link:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45-70

Amianthus

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Re: Second Amendment right to revolution?
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2008, 05:21:26 PM »
Mine is a Lee-Enfield SMLE, or offically a Lee-Enfield Short Magazine Rifle MkIII .  My major gripe with it is that it's just very uncomfortable to shoot, my personal opinion is that the barrel is too light and the balance is off, but I'm no gun smith and not even much of a gun buff, so it's hard to say for certain.

One of mine is the SMLE MkIII ("Short Magazine Lee-Enfield"). I added a pad to the butt ('cause the steel butt plate just has no cushioning effect at all....) but other than that, it seems balanced pretty well. Are you sure the barrel hasn't been shortened on it? I've also got a Mk4 which was a former British sniper rifle and that one shoots real good...

Mine is just a standard lever action, no trapdoor.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those old split breaches worth a lot of money?  Seems like I've heard or read that somewhere.

So I've heard. My father bought it many years ago, I don't think he's ever had it valued.

The bullet drop and trajectory arc is drastic, from my experience.

Most modern shooters are not used to the high trajectories of older bullets. Modern bullets have a much flatter trajectory.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)