Author Topic: Seldom seen, rarely heard  (Read 1325 times)

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Lanya

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Seldom seen, rarely heard
« on: March 24, 2008, 04:23:59 AM »
Interesting article, I thought.

2 Divergent McCain Moments, Rarely Mentioned
Dennis Cook/Associated Press

Senators John Kerry, left, and John McCain meeting with reporters in 2002 as they discussed automobile mileage standards.
   
By ELISABETH BUMILLER
Published: March 24, 2008

WASHINGTON ? Senator John McCain never fails to call himself a conservative Republican as he campaigns as his party?s presumptive presidential nominee. He often adds that he was a ?foot soldier? in the Reagan revolution and that he believes in the bedrock conservative principles of small government, low taxes and the rights of the unborn.


What Mr. McCain almost never mentions are two extraordinary moments in his political past that are at odds with the candidate of the present: His discussions in 2001 with Democrats about leaving the Republican Party, and his conversations in 2004 with Senator John Kerry about becoming Mr. Kerry?s running mate on the Democratic presidential ticket.

There are wildly divergent versions of both episodes, depending on whether Democrats or Mr. McCain and his advisers are telling the story. The Democrats, including Mr. Kerry, say that not only did Mr. McCain express interest but that it was his camp that initially reached out to them. Mr. McCain and his aides counter that in both cases the Democrats were the suitors and Mr. McCain the unwilling bride.

Either way, the episodes shed light on a bitter period in Mr. McCain?s life after the 2000 presidential election, when he was, at least in policy terms, drifting away from his own party. They also offer a glimpse into his psychological makeup and the difficulties in putting a label on his political ideology over many years in the Senate.

?There were times when he rose to the occasion and showed himself to be a real pragmatist,? said Tom Daschle, the former Senate Democratic leader who was one of those who met with Mr. McCain in 2001 about switching parties and who is now supporting Senator Barack Obama. ?There were other times when he was motivated by political goals and agendas that led him to be much more of a political ideologue.?

Such swings are common in politics, but for Mr. McCain, Mr. Daschle said, ?those swings have been far more pronounced and far more frequent.?

In the spring of 2001, Mr. McCain was by most accounts still angry about the smear campaign that had been run against him when he was campaigning for the Republican presidential nomination in the South Carolina primary the previous year. He had long blamed the Bush campaign for spreading rumors in the state that he had fathered a black child out of wedlock, which Bush aides denied. Mr. McCain was also upset that the new White House had shut the door on hiring so many of his aides.

?Very few, if any, of John?s people made it into the administration,? Mr. Daschle later wrote in his book ?Like No Other Time.? ?John didn?t think that was right, that his staff should be penalized like that.?

Mr. McCain had begun to ally himself with the Democrats on a number of issues, and had told Mr. Daschle that he planned to vote against the Bush tax cuts, a centerpiece of the new president?s domestic agenda. Mr. McCain often made ?disparaging comments? about Mr. Bush on the floor of the Senate, Mr. Daschle recalled.

Still, Democrats were stunned one Saturday in late March when, by their account, John Weaver, Mr. McCain?s longtime political strategist, reached out to Thomas J. Downey, a former Democratic congressman from Long Island who had become a lobbyist with powerful connections on Capitol Hill. In Mr. Downey?s telling, Mr. Weaver posed a question to him over lunch that left him stunned.

?He says, ?John McCain is wondering why nobody?s ever approached him about switching parties, or becoming an independent and allying himself with the Democrats,? ? Mr. Downey said in a recent interview. ?My reaction was, ?When I leave this lunch, your boss will be called by anybody you want him to be called by in the United States Senate.? ?

Mr. Weaver recalls the conversation differently. He said that Mr. Downey had told him that Democrats, eager to find a Republican who would switch sides and give them control of the evenly divided Senate, had approached some Republican senators about making the jump. ?I stated they couldn?t be so desperate as they hadn?t reached out to McCain,? Mr. Weaver said in an e-mail message last week.

Whatever transpired, Mr. Downey raced home and immediately called Mr. Daschle. It was the first step in what became weeks of conversations that April between Mr. McCain and the leading Democrats, among them Senator Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts and John Edwards, then a senator from North Carolina, about the possibility of Mr. McCain?s leaving his party. One factor driving Mr. McCain, Mr. Downey said, was his bad relations with the Republican caucus.

?They had booed him once when he came in,? Mr. Downey said. ?It was bad stuff in the caucus. He didn?t see his future with these guys.?

Mark Salter, one of Mr. McCain?s closest advisers, said that Mr. McCain, although flattered, never took the idea of leaving the party seriously. The topic was in any case overtaken in May when Senator James M. Jeffords of Vermont abandoned the Republicans and changed the balance of power. By June, when Mr. Daschle spent a long-planned weekend with Mr. McCain at Mr. McCain?s Arizona ranch, the question of changing parties was moot.

But less than three years later, Mr. McCain was once again in talks with the Democrats, this time over whether he would be Mr. Kerry?s running mate. In an interview with a blog last year, Mr. Kerry said that the initial idea had come from Mr. McCain?s side, as had happened in 2001.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/24/us/politics/24mccain.html?hp
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Amianthus

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2008, 08:31:53 AM »
Unlike Democrats, Republicans allow divergent thoughts among their candidates.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2008, 06:01:26 PM »
Unlike Democrats, Republicans allow divergent thoughts among their candidates.
===============================================================
I doubt this very seriously.

The term RINOS (Republicans In Name Only) was coined just to isolate Republicans with such heretical beliefs. Among the Party Peons right here in this forum, there are many who express the thought that McCain is some sort of closet socialist.


I am not sure why a political party shoudl NOT be organized along ideological lines. This is certainly the case in countries more democratic in both practice and spiriot than the USA, such as Germany, the Netherlands, Denmark, Canada and Costa Rica, just to mention a few.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2008, 07:06:07 PM »
I doubt this very seriously.

The term RINOS (Republicans In Name Only) was coined just to isolate Republicans with such heretical beliefs. Among the Party Peons right here in this forum, there are many who express the thought that McCain is some sort of closet socialist.

You may doubt it, but it is, never the less, true.

As you pointed out, many Republicans think that McCain is "some sort of closet socialist" and yet, he is going to be nominated by the party for President.

Zell Miller, on the other hand, was pretty much hounded out of the Democratic party because he expressed some beliefs that were not held by the rank and file.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2008, 11:07:02 AM »
The "Conservatives" in the GOP, it turns out, were so distasteful that no one could abide them: Gingrich, Thompson, Romney, Giulani. So McCain was pretty much all they had, because there is no way the oligarchs could abide turning the party over to a Bible-thumpin' preacher like Huckabee.

McCain has shown himself capable of reconciling himself with Satan himself. Juniorbush and Rove went after him tooth and fang in South Carolina, and in a couple of years we have these pictures of McCain hugging Juniorbush like a big ol' teddy bear. He comes out against torture, and Juniorbush still reserves the right to waterboard whomever he pleases  and to listen into any phone call with no paper trail; whatsoever.

McCain is a shameless pussy. But the GOP needs him more than he needs them.

I am not all that fond of the Democrats, but at least their skirmishes are out in the open and not in the gloom of something like the Skull 'n' Bones secret Skull and Bones room. The Oligarchy that supports the Democrats is far superior to the one that supports the GOP, because is is less secretive.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

BT

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2008, 11:11:06 AM »
Quote
The Oligarchy that supports the Democrats is far superior to the one that supports the GOP, because is is less secretive.

That presumes that the Oligarchs are different for each party.

I doubt that is the case.


Amianthus

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2008, 11:16:24 AM »
The Oligarchy that supports the Democrats is far superior to the one that supports the GOP, because is is less secretive.

Actually, the one that supports the Democrats is so secretive, you don't know about them. They only show you what they want you to see, in this case a group that purports to be in charge of the Democrats and is "less secretive."
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2008, 11:29:49 AM »
Actually, you seem to be making this up.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to name all the articles and books I have read that have convinced me of my position.

But you appear to have no evidence.
I don't believe you. I remain unconvinced.

I think the truth is that the Democrats are simply less able to keep everything shrouded in secrecy. No one is more secretive than corporations, and the main occupation of the GOP Oligarchy is running occupations, for their own benefit, both government and shareholders be damned.

The entertainment industry, the various groups of lawyers, what is left of the unions, the various advocates of the elderly, the public service workers, the civil rights groups, NAACP, LULAC, etc that form the closest thing to an oligarchy that the Democrats have, are often at odds with one another, and therefore their spats are most often not secretive at all-- they bring them out into the open, as we see with the Hillary-Obama dispute.

There was no anti-abortion bunch publicly putting on a show like the relatively inconsequential spats about Rev. Wright and how much danger Hillary might have faced in Bosnia.

Big Oil, the weapons makers, the gun nuts, the closet racists, the military contractors, and the corporations all get too much from the GOP to risk public confrontations, and the religious nutbars have been told to shut up. They will get their empty promises around November, their preachers will be bought off with petty cash and promises of more Fascist judges they can start dumping on the gays and the pro-choice people when the time comes. There will be more swiftboating and non-issues galore. I am hoping that the people will be less ignorant and cowed by threats of terrorism to not fall for the same old crap and a third Juniorbush administration again.

A two party system would be okay only if one of the two were not the GOP. Since they have too much money to overwhelm, three or four viable parties would give us a lot better government,
« Last Edit: March 25, 2008, 11:43:42 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2008, 11:37:23 AM »
I have neither the time nor the inclination to name all the articles and books I have read that have convinced me of my position.

But you appear to have no evidence.
I don't believe you. I remain unconvinced.

Actually, there are lots of articles and books that have convinced me of my position. And I have neither the time nor the inclination to name them all.

I am as unconvinced of your position as you are of mine, I'm sure.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2008, 02:39:23 PM »
I really don't know why I bother with this nonsense. It serves no purpose.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Seldom seen, rarely heard
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2008, 02:44:21 PM »
I really don't know why I bother with this nonsense. It serves no purpose.

Yeah, I know. I've been saying that about many of your posts for years.

Though, it is easier to argue as you do - broad pronouncements and a refusal to back up your positions.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)