Author Topic: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently  (Read 1882 times)

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sirs

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1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« on: April 04, 2008, 09:27:55 PM »
Talk about chutzpah.  It's bad enough to abuse MLK's message for political gain (and yes, both parties do it), but to literally push the polar opposite, and and be applauded for largely a vast socialist agenda, has to be making MLK turn in his grave.  But at least the folks like Brass will be salivating all over him

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Obama and King
By JUAN WILLIAMS
April 4, 2008


Martin Luther King Jr. died at age 39; today, the 40th anniversary of his death, is the first time he has been gone longer than he lived.

Figures such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have tried to claim his place on the American stage. But at most they have achieved fame and wealth. What separated King from any would-be successor was his moral authority. He towered above the high walls of racial suspicion by speaking truth to all sides.

Now comes Barack Obama, a black man and a plausible national leader, who appeals across racial lines. But to his black and white supporters, Mr. Obama increasingly represents different things.

The initial base of support for Mr. Obama's presidential campaign came from young whites ? who saw in him the ability to take the nation to a place where, to quote from King's "I Have A Dream" speech, "we shall be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood."

Black voters rallied to Mr. Obama after whites in Iowa and New Hampshire showed they were willing to vote for him. Mr. Obama spoke directly to charges that he was not "black enough," that he was not a child of the civil rights movement because he grew up in Hawaii and has an Ivy League education, that he is too young, it is not his time, and even that his campaign is too risky because white racists might kill him.

Mr. Obama, his wife Michelle and supporters such as Oprah Winfrey make the case to black voters that he is the fruit of the struggles of King and others. They argue that this generation of black Americans does not have to wait for their turn to reach for the ultimate political power of the presidency.

Mr. Obama has carried a message of pride and self-sufficiency to black voters nationwide, who have rewarded him with support reaching 80% and higher. His candidacy has become, as the headline on Ebony magazine put it, a matter of having a black man as president "In Our Lifetime."

Among his white supporters, race is coincidental, not central, to his political identity. Mr. Obama is to them the candidate who personifies the promise of equal opportunity for all. But as black support has become central to his victories, this idealistic view has been increasingly at war with the portrayal, crafted by the senator to win black support, of him as the black candidate. The terrible tension between these racially distinct views now surrounds and threatens his campaign.

So far, Mr. Obama has been content to let black people have their vision of him while white people hold to a separate, segregated reality. He is a politician and, unlike King, his goal is winning votes, not changing hearts. Still, it is a key break from the King tradition to sell different messages to different audiences based on race, and to fail to challenge racial divisions in the nation.

Mr. Obama's major speech on race last month was forced from him only after a political crisis erupted: It became widely known that he'd sat for 20 years in the pews of a church where Rev. Jeremiah Wright lashed out at white people. The minister cursed America as worthy of damnation, made lewd suggestions about the nature of President Clinton's relationship with black voters, and embraced the paranoid idea that the white government was spreading AIDS among black people.
 
Here is where the racial tension at the heart of Mr. Obama's campaign flared into view. He either
- shared these beliefs
or,
- lacking good judgment, decided it politically expedient for an ambitious young black politician trying to prove his solidarity with all things black, to be associated with these rants.

His judgment and leadership on the critical issue of race is in question.

While speaking to black people, King never condescended to offer Rev. Wright-style diatribes or conspiracy theories. He did not paint black people as victims. To the contrary, he spoke about black people as American patriots who believed in the democratic ideals of the country, in nonviolence and the Judeo-Christian ethic, even as they overcame slavery, discrimination and disadvantage. King challenged white America to do the same, to live up to their ideals and create racial unity. He challenged white Christians, asking them how they could treat their fellow black Christians as anything but brothers in Christ.

When King spoke about the racist past, he gloried in black people beating the odds to win equal rights by arming "ourselves with dignity and self-respect." He expressed regret that some black leaders reveled in grievance, malice and self-indulgent anger in place of a focus on strong families, education and love of God. (sirs-pretty much the opposite of what Obama listened to for the last 20+years) Even in the days before Congress passed civil rights laws, King spoke to black Americans about the pride that comes from "assuming primary responsibility" for achieving "first class citizenship."

Last March in Selma, Ala., Mr. Obama appeared on the verge of breaking away from the merchants of black grievance and victimization. At a commemoration of the 1965 Selma-to-Montgomery march for voting rights, he spoke in a King-like voice. He focused on traditions of black sacrifice, idealism and the need for taking personal responsibility for building strong black families and communities. He said black people should never "deny that its gotten better," even as the movement goes on to improve schools and provide good health care for all Americans. He then challenged black America, by saying that "government alone can't solve all those problems . . . it is not enough just to ask what the government can do for us -- it's important for us to ask what we can do for ourselves."

Mr. Obama added that better education for black students begins with black parents visiting their children's teachers, as well as turning off the television so children can focus on homework. He expressed alarm over the lack of appreciation for education in the black community: "I don't know who taught them that reading and writing and conjugating your verbs were something white. We've got to get over that mentality." King, he added later, believed that black America has to first "transform ourselves in order to transform the world."

But as his campaign made headway with black voters, Mr. Obama no longer spoke about the responsibility and the power of black America to appeal to the conscience and highest ideals of the nation. He no longer asks black people to let go of the grievance culture to transcend racial arguments and transform the world.

He has stopped all mention of government's inability to create strong black families, while the black community accepts a 70% out-of-wedlock birth rate.
Half of black and Hispanic children drop out of high school, but he no longer touches on the need for parents to convey a love of learning to their children.
There is no mention in his speeches of the history of expensive but ineffective government programs that encourage dependency.
He fails to point out the failures of too many poverty programs, given the 25% poverty rate in black America.

And he chooses not to confront the poisonous "thug life" culture in rap music that glorifies drug use and crime.

Instead the senator, in a full political pander, is busy excusing Rev. Wright's racial attacks as the right of the Rev.-Wright generation of black Americans to define the nation's future by their past. He stretches compassion to the breaking point by equating his white grandmother's private concerns about black men on the street with Rev. Wright's public stirring of racial division.

And he wasted time in his Philadelphia speech on race by saying he can't "disown" Rev. Wright any more than he could "disown the black community." No one has asked him to disown Rev. Wright. Only in a later appearance on "The View" television show did he say that he would have left the church if Rev. Wright had not retired and not acknowledged his offensive language.

As the nation tries to recall the meaning of Martin Luther King today, Mr. Obama's campaign has become a mirror reflecting where we are on race 40 years after the assassination. Mr. Obama's success has moved forward the story of American race relations; King would have been thrilled with his political triumphs.

But when Barack Obama, arguably the best of this generation of black or white leaders, finds it easy to sit in Rev. Wright's pews and nod along with wacky and bitterly divisive racial rhetoric, it does call his judgment into question. And it reveals a continuing crisis in racial leadership.

What would Jesus do? There is no question he would have left that church.


Article


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Brassmask

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2008, 09:57:02 PM »
Until Obama gave that race speech, I just thought of him as the guy I wanted to beat Hillary for the nomination.

Now, I'm a supporter.  I couldn't care less where he went to church.  Only morons are still pushing this Reverend Wright story.  It has nothing to do with anything that matters in this country today.  Its trumped up bullshit that amounts to alot of crybaby bullshit on the part of conservatives and Hillary-lovers (often the same thing now).

Obama gave another brilliant and succinct speech today that is aimed at bringing Americans together.  All this horseshit about Reverend Wright is only designed to drive us apart.  Division or unity.  You have chosen division.  Stand aside while the rest of us choose unity.

Whine on the sidelines and in the voting booth.  Won't you?

Lanya

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2008, 02:13:50 AM »
I think he's rather moderate, a little too DLC middle of the road for me, but I'm happy he's got so many very enthusiastic supporters.

I heard there were over 5,000 people in Santa Fe for his speech. That is unheard of. 
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sirs

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2008, 05:19:34 AM »
Until Obama gave that race speech, I just thought of him as the guy I wanted to beat Hillary for the nomination.  Now, I'm a supporter.  I couldn't care less where he went to church.  Only morons are still pushing this Reverend Wright story.  It has nothing to do with anything that matters in this country today.  Its trumped up bullshit that amounts to alot of crybaby bullshit on the part of conservatives and Hillary-lovers

LOL...yea, like Pat Robertson as McCain's "spiritual advisor and mentor" would have been perfectly acceptable and a non-issue with you.  Now, pull my other leg.  You "couldn't care less", because now he's your guy, so by design, it must become a non-issue.  But don't worry Brass, the Media apparently is fawning all over Obama even more than the Clintons now, so the referencing of his acute lack of judgement will likely be placed on the backburner until the general election starts up in full.


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2008, 06:08:27 AM »
I imagine if Jesus were alive and in the US today, he'd piss off a lot more people than Rev. Wright. Jesus was not an American, he came from a time and a place where starvation and death of disease at a young age was the rule rather than the exception, and he spoke in riddles and rhymes. The debate between Pharisees and Saducees is utterly irrelevaent to people in the US today.

MLK appealed to Blacks and Whites with different messages as well, or at least with different aspects of the same message. Black people have had a very different experience in the US than most White people, and therefore the message has to be different. mLK was not running for public office. His message to most Whites was "It is unjust to throw rocks and shoot our people when all they want is the same rights you have."

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2008, 04:57:37 PM »
I imagine if Jesus were alive and in the US today, he'd piss off a lot more people than Rev. Wright.

He might, but not in the same vain.  He wouldn;t be jumping out and down, screeching how bad a certain race is, preeching segregation, and largely using the pulput for political rantings.  But yea, there are plenty of atheists and Muslims that would really get PO'd at what modern day Jesus would say

 
MLK appealed to Blacks and Whites with different messages as well, or at least with different aspects of the same message. Black people have had a very different experience in the US than most White people, and therefore the message has to be different. mLK was not running for public office.

Nice rationalization effort       ::)


His message to most Whites was "It is unjust to throw rocks and shoot our people when all they want is the same rights you have."

Where as Obama's mentor's message is that the U.S. is terrible, White racists still run the country, we deserved 911, and GDAmerica.  Pretty much the opposite of MLK's message, as he specifically stated that he expressed regret that some black leaders reveled in grievance, malice and self-indulgent anger in place of a focus on strong families, education and love of God.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2008, 07:44:31 PM »
But yea, there are plenty of atheists and Muslims that would really get PO'd at what modern day Jesus would say

I think that there are plenty of "Christians" who would be PO'd at what modern Jesus would say, especially when it comes to loving your brother and your enemy.  I'm not talking about anyone on this board, and I consider myself a somewhat devout Christian, but I see a lot of Christians out there that seem to be the antithesis of Christ's teachings.

sirs

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2008, 07:50:12 PM »
But yea, there are plenty of atheists and Muslims that would really get PO'd at what modern day Jesus would say

I think that there are plenty of "Christians" who would be PO'd at what modern Jesus would say, especially when it comes to loving your brother and your enemy.

When the enemy is trying to kill you Fat, there's little "love" that can shared during such an intimate moment, I'm afraid


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2008, 07:53:36 PM »
Where as Obama's mentor's message is that the U.S. is terrible, White racists still run the country, we deserved 911, and GDAmerica.  Pretty much the opposite of MLK's message, as he specifically stated that he expressed regret that some black leaders reveled in grievance, malice and self-indulgent anger in place of a focus on strong families, education and love of God.
=======================================================================
Now that is just bullsh*t. Show us where Rev. Wright is opposed to strong families, education and the love of God.

It is a centuries-old tradition that prophets preach against the societies and governments under which they live. It is pretty revealing of your ignorance of Old Testament Judaism and even New Testament Christianity that you constantly harp on this.

It is also true that many OT and NT prophets were also full of sh*t. Just read the book.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

fatman

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2008, 07:55:53 PM »
When the enemy is trying to kill you Fat, there's little "love" that can shared during such an intimate moment, I'm afraid


Ahhhh, but sirs, the terrorists/IslamoNazi's/insurgents/flavor of the day are only one enemy.  We have many others in our daily lives that many of us are unwilling to forgive.  The driver who cuts us off in traffic, the woman who cuts in line at the store, the ex that cheated on you.  Those were more of what I was thinking of when I wrote the post, I apologize for not clarifying that.

sirs

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2008, 08:00:11 PM »
When the enemy is trying to kill you Fat, there's little "love" that can shared during such an intimate moment, I'm afraid

Ahhhh, but sirs, the terrorists/IslamoNazi's/insurgents/flavor of the day are only one enemy.  We have many others in our daily lives that many of us are unwilling to forgive.  The driver who cuts us off in traffic, the woman who cuts in line at the store, the ex that cheated on you.  Those were more of what I was thinking of when I wrote the post, I apologize for not clarifying that.

And I'd argue there are many a people, Christian and non-Christian alike that apparently have developed far less patience necessary in dealing with these trivial "enemies".  So, to make this about Christians, and that they'd be all PO'd if Jesus were to remind us what it means to be Christian, to be patient, and to be compassonate, I think is selling "Christians" a little short.

Of course it's hard to broadbrush an entire group, when perhaps you meant only a mutated faction of it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

fatman

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2008, 08:04:20 PM »
So, to make this about Christians, and that they'd be all PO'd if Jesus were to remind us what it means to be Christian, to be patient, and to be compassonate, I think is selling "Christians" a little short.

I didn't say "all Christians would be PO'd if Jesus were to remind us of what it means to be Christian", I said plenty of Christians.  In no way was I trying to be all inclusive or to broad brush, I know many Christians in my life that this (IMO) wouldn't apply to, but I also know quite a few that it would.  That's all that I was trying to say, not trying to broad brush all Christians as intolerant hypocrites, but some of them.

sirs

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Re: 1st Hillary, now it's Barak's turn apparently
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2008, 08:36:43 PM »
I didn't mean you meant "all" either, my apologies, BUT to imply there'd be some mass amount of conflict modern day Christians vs just some who might call themselves Christian, then turn around and act precisely the opposite of what Jesus teachs us....well, that's a given, and not sure why you would feel compelled to state a common sense perception.  Yea, there are "some" self proclaimed Christians who have no business making such a claim, given their actions
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle