When?

[Universe Prince]

ya ever notice they always pretend they want to fight the enemy elsewhere

Who is "they"?

[sirs]

I'm not sure how "it is still a war, the war on terror, the war on Islamofascism/militant Islam, whatever" is not you equating "a war" with "the war on terror", but if you say so, okay. Looked to me like you were making them all out to be the same, but if you say it was a misunderstanding, I'll take your word for it.

And as you are now well aware, my point was they aren't, so I'm glad we're on the same page, on this regard.  Similar fronts, but wholly different ojectives (Saddam/Iraq vs the war on Terror).  The former was the Mission Accomplished moment, the latter is ongoing, and will be for quite a while.  Bush even said so himself

[Rich]

>>The former was the Mission Accomplished moment, the latter is ongoing, and will be for quite a while.<<

If you want to parse it that way, okay. However, they are both part of the war on terror as defined by the President.

[fatman]

"War is just dumb"

With the exception of Nazism, all of those things are alive and well in the world today.

I guess war didn't eradicate them, did it?

[fatman]

Except war did not end slavery or fascism or communism. Slavery was ended by political means, though it still exists in some form today, communism is still around, and I'm pretty sure if you ask socialists and/or war on terror supporters they will tell you fascism is around as well. Well, you got one out of four.

Dammit, you beat me to it.

[Christians4LessGvt]

Dammit, you beat me to it.

Oh come on Fatman.

Dont we both know the sign refers to for all practical matters "ending slavery" in the United States and ending Nazism in Germany?

Of course slavery still exists in the world today, but it is generally accepted that the US Civil War freed the slaves from slavery.

The point is that war has solved major problems, forced political solutions, or at the least forced people to change their behaviors for the better.

[Universe Prince]

Dammit, you beat me to it.

No, no, no. It's Universe Prince, not Dammit.

[Universe Prince]

Of course slavery still exists in the world today, but it is generally accepted that the US Civil War freed the slaves from slavery.

Except that it didn't.

[Cynthia]

Dead for no good reason is always pitiful, BT.

The opportunity for a stable Middle-East is not a good reason?

That seems to be a myopic and selfish attitude to me.

Selfish?

Myopic?

to you?

You put words in my mouth. You think I do not want a stable middle east? I live for a stable middle east. We all do. If we don't have that, we are dead in the water.

I do not believe that Bush was intelligent enough to bring about change, let alone, solve centuries old bloodshed problems within that region, BT.

You think there is a quick fix?

You would be wrong.

You would be selfish in your assessment of such a stance.

This is not 1941 Dec. 7th.

This is not your typical war on what terrorizes others.

It is, however, a war to bring down a very bad seed, aka Saddam. We did that. NOw, hmmm, is there a chance that we can really tear down that element of terrorism that will be underground for centuries to come?
\
I say it will not occur with just ONE WAR in a country rich in history, culture and beauty. . . Iraq.

It will come about through attention to those minor details that sneak into our lives via holes of opportunity such as the club of men/women who ONE BY ONE plan well enough to do us in.

Perhaps Bush's administration has done all it can to secure our airports and such, but anyone in his position would have done the same after 9-11, imo.

Bush has not helped out one bit by invading Iraq.
Now, those who hate want more blood. Iran.
AFghanistan is the stage of the fight we should have focused on with more clarity.

THE UNITED NATIONS has troops there. But, we wanted more. We wanted more. We always want MORE...and at what cost?

Some day we are going to have to admit that we were wrong based on our greed to want MORE...I think this administration is greedy and willing to bully others in order to flex muscles.

Hell, then again, I have to admit, as much as I HATED CLINTON BILLY....and his ignorance in the arena of stopping the crap that could have been stopped. . . perhpas Bush isn't that bad.

Bill Clinton was wrong to let the terror "notices" slide. Those attacks were under his watch.

There's so much blame to go around.

We will never understand the scope of it all, because we will never be able to understand that the world is divided into many segments of beings who only want to find their own peace.

The terrorists have a chance to die now. They will not. Why?
 Because hate begets hate...and their fuel is only fired up.

I don't blame Bush for that. I do hold Clinton "accountable" for the lack of hearing that ugly call.

But, we have bitten off more than we were supposed to chew.

That's my stance.

Wisdom is key here...and Bush did not have enough of that to save his life. ....let alone those boys who die each day on teh battle field.

[BT]

So your solution is to bring the troops home.

Become an isolationist nation once again.

To strike back only when stricken.

That an attack on our friends is simply an attack on our friends. Their problem, not ours.

That sacrifice is a fools game, that the Iraqi's are not worth one more drop of our boys blood.

For that matter, what really is.

 

[Cynthia]

So your solution is to bring the troops home.

Become an isolationist nation once again.

To strike back only when stricken.

That an attack on our friends is simply an attack on our friends. Their problem, not ours.

That sacrifice is a fools game, that the Iraqi's are not worth one more drop of our boys blood.

For that matter, what really is.

 

What is your solution?
What can you bring to the discussion that is void of ego and the need to be right, BT?

Is there only one way or the highway for you here?

I am curious.

[BT]

Where is the ego in that post.

Where is the need to be right.

The fact is i could be quite comfortable with an isolationist approach to foreign policy.

Problem is that it isn't practical in this shrinking world.

I learned a long time ago that life isn't like TV.

Problems aren't always solved in the 23 minutes allotted a 30 minute sitcom.

That some results are worth the wait.

[Cynthia]

Well, then, show it, BT.

This is a sound bite atmosphere.

I have NEVER heard you admit you are wrong.
Never.

You can't do it...and yet, change has to come via a willingness to admit mistakes.

I think we need to discuss more.....without the ego underlying factor that has been a factor on this board for years.

I don't see anyone new on this board. I wonder why?

Perhaps the good old boys mentality has finally taken this place to a disadvantage.

The rush to bash, react, prove others wrong..is palpable. ...not contructive.

I am just saying that we might need to get into healthy discussions of such that we might have to admit we need to "rethink" an issue.

My god, that is human nature. That is the essence of learning.

Cindy

[BT]

I don't believe i have bashed you personally in any of my posts.

And are we now discussing this board instead of Iraq?

[BT]

http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2008/04/the-liberation-1.php