Author Topic: Dangers of the Modern World  (Read 17424 times)

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sirs

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2008, 01:09:31 AM »
That way we can more appropriately ignore the garbage that buying an SUV is merely for attention getting

=============================================
Kindly observe that I was not talking about buying just any old SUV, but that rather expensive modified pickup truck called the H3.

Ahh, so besides Cheney, your other irrational obsession is with the H3.  Duely noted


Perhaps people do feel these are safer, but they are wrong.

Ummm, no, bigger car, more weight, more safety in the event of a collision, unless of course its with a big rig.  Not rocket science here

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2008, 11:50:51 PM »
That way we can more appropriately ignore the garbage that buying an SUV is merely for attention getting

=============================================
Kindly observe that I was not talking about buying just any old SUV, but that rather expensive modified pickup truck called the H3.

Ahh, so besides Cheney, your other irrational obsession is with the H3.  Duely noted


Perhaps people do feel these are safer, but they are wrong.

Ummm, no, bigger car, more weight, more safety in the event of a collision, unless of course its with a big rig.  Not rocket science here



Waste? Ok, parking for the Hb would be more of a bitch than NOT..... the "other guy" gets swiftly killed in a collision!!
Rocket scientists could certainly invent a better and more safe vehicle. ....why support the gas hog in a time when we need more pork for the buck?

Not a bit of rocket science here?...You're right.
Only Rockets need apply. BIGGER is better, sirs?


What?

WHy?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 11:59:14 PM by Cynthia »

sirs

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2008, 11:58:30 PM »
Only Rockets need apply. BIGGER is better, sirs?  WHy?

More protection in the event of a collision.  Again, not rocket science.  Its likley one of the main reasons I see 90% of SUV drivers I've seen as being women.  Something probably along the silly notion of wanting to better protect their children, while lugging all the kids' stuff around.  Hard to get the same level of protection & practicality in a yugo
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2008, 12:16:55 AM »
Only Rockets need apply. BIGGER is better, sirs?  WHy?

More protection in the event of a collision.  Again, not rocket science.  Its likley one of the main reasons I see 90% of SUV drivers I've seen as being women.  Something probably along the silly notion of wanting to better protect their children, while lugging all the kids' stuff around.  Hard to get the same level of protection & practicality in a yugo

Ok, are you  saying that women either drive a hummer or a yugo?

What a ridiculous argument.

Don't bring women drivers into your argument along "with family"....a cop out.

The point is that the H" is a gas hog. Building bigger with the intent to increase so much that is so very BAD FOR OTHERS i.e. pollution, waste, the human lung, etc................not to mention a massive threat to the green friendly way of commuting.

Wisdom is the key here. Think in terms of the long RUN...not in terms of the greed, Sirs.

You are narrow in your scope of thought when it comes to many subjects.

Bigger is NOT better, necessarilly.

I would have thought you to be more aware of such things -living in Calif.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 12:18:30 AM by Cynthia »

sirs

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2008, 01:38:54 AM »
Only Rockets need apply. BIGGER is better, sirs?  WHy?

More protection in the event of a collision.  Again, not rocket science.  Its likley one of the main reasons I see 90% of SUV drivers I've seen as being women.  Something probably along the silly notion of wanting to better protect their children, while lugging all the kids' stuff around.  Hard to get the same level of protection & practicality in a yugo

Ok, are you  saying that women either drive a hummer or a yugo?  What a ridiculous argument.

Especially since I'm not making it


Don't bring women drivers into your argument along "with family"....a cop out.

LOL....yea....right.....mothers probably wanting to protect their children is such a cop out      ::)


The point is that the H" is a gas hog. Building bigger with the intent to increase so much that is so very BAD FOR OTHERS i.e. pollution, waste, the human lung, etc................not to mention a massive threat to the green friendly way of commuting.

Umm, ok, so you have an obsessive beef with those that want the freedom to buy it as well.  Gotcha.  I guess we can put Cynthia down with Xo, for advocating a modified version of freedom.....freedom to chose things that only they believe is ok for someone else to chose.


Wisdom is the key here. Think in terms of the long RUN...not in terms of the greed, Sirs.

Personally, I'll stick with Freedom, if you don't mind

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2008, 09:46:17 AM »
The entire issue here was what the Pope meant by "greedy consumerism" and how the Earth would be better off if people would think about the harm or benefit that their possible purchases might do to other before they VOLUNTARILY made their choices.

It is not possible to buy a Yugo because the damned things were poorly built, not very safe, and of course, the factory was bombed to smithereens, so comparing Yugos to H3's is is just stupid.

The military Hummer is perhaps an ideal vehicle for the Army, as it will carry many soldiers, it has a durable and relatively economical Diesel engine, and a durable body.

The H3 is a cheapo modified pickup truck that has been uglified to resemble the H1, but it has none of the durability or economical aspects of the H1. The price has been jacked up several thousands of dollars to appease fools that believe that paying more actually always must result in a better product.

Any Volvo wagon would be far safer. Basically, the idea is to appeal to silly fools who believe that ugly and menacing vehicles are actually safe. Consumers Union is a far better source of safety info than the size or ugly factor. The Ford Expedition was rather ugly, enormous, and prone to roll if the tire pressures were too low.

The entire SUV craze began as a marketing ploy by Detroit companies who felt that selling heavier trucks to people who previously bought cars (because trucks did not have such strict cafe or safety standards) could be sold these things at a greater profit than actually developing safer and more economical vehicles as the Japanese and Europeans were selling. There was no clamor for people to make Suburbans more carlike: rather, they did extensive marketing research to determine what could be sold to specific market segments. It is rather like the food industry using more and more hydrogenated transfats and corn sweeteners and advertising these on kiddie TV. The profit went up, but the consumer was deliberately deceived.

A common billboard ad shows a mighty Road Ranger somewhere in the tidal flats between the French coast and Mont-Saint-Michel with the word "Adventure". In reality, the real adventure would be in being swept away when the tide came in (it is an SUV, not a submarine) or explaining to the Gendarmes why and how the moron of a driver attempted to drive it there.

In the places where one can drive on an exposed tidal sand flat, any vehicle will suffice.

It is pretty obvious that not a single North American buyer of this Range Rover will ever actually drive the fool thing to the coast of Europe. It is an unrealistic an ad as one depicting a happy family dining on a rtoasyted bundle of Camel Filter cigarettes for Thanksgiving dinner.

People can buy any Goddamned abortion they wish, at least up to a point. I would be opposed to including propylene glycol in toothpaste
or incorporating sharp, pointy objects on the bumpers or Ben Hur rotating knives on the wheels of vehicles. This is not about people being forced to buy this or that. It is about people being fools.

If women are most of the SUV buyers, one needs to remember that women nearly always know less about cars than men, and will trade in a car that has a failing battery or electric component because they are convinced that it is a 'bad car'. Car salesmen LOVE women, as they can stick them for around $1,000 more on every sale of a $20K vehicle. Some buy cars as though they were fashion accessories

No, I am not saying that women are all stupid about cars. But they are, on average, more ignorant about men. Most could not tell you whether their vehicle has 4, 5, 6, or 8 cylinders, disc or drum brakes, or should use synthetic or petro oil. Or what pressure should be in the tires, how to put air in them, or how to use a simple tire gauge.

But it is nonetheless stupid for most people to buy 4WD SUVs for city commutes.  The H3 is just the most obvious of the SUVs marketed for dolts. Probably the older Kia Sportages are more unsafe: I have seen more of them upside down on the side of the road and signs of being rolled in U-Pick junkyards.

By the way, that's how to determine how long cars really last: check the odometers of unwrecked cars in the junkyards. No one rolls an odometer FORWARD. JD Powers surveys only follow the repairs done for one year past the purchase date. That is the survey that the auto companies always quote, and it is basically bogus, unless you are a fool that trades in a new car every single year.

Again, I was referring to the Pope's plea for people to make wise voluntary decisions. I also add that I have a perfect right to suggest that fools that buy behemoth guzzlers for astronomical prices in the light of soaring fuel prices are, in fact, fools.

 
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2008, 11:07:25 PM »
Only Rockets need apply. BIGGER is better, sirs?  WHy?

More protection in the event of a collision.  Again, not rocket science.  Its likley one of the main reasons I see 90% of SUV drivers I've seen as being women.  Something probably along the silly notion of wanting to better protect their children, while lugging all the kids' stuff around.  Hard to get the same level of protection & practicality in a yugo

Ok, are you  saying that women either drive a hummer or a yugo?  What a ridiculous argument.

Especially since I'm not making it


Don't bring women drivers into your argument along "with family"....a cop out.

LOL....yea....right.....mothers probably wanting to protect their children is such a cop out      ::)


The point is that the H" is a gas hog. Building bigger with the intent to increase so much that is so very BAD FOR OTHERS i.e. pollution, waste, the human lung, etc................not to mention a massive threat to the green friendly way of commuting.

Umm, ok, so you have an obsessive beef with those that want the freedom to buy it as well.  Gotcha.  I guess we can put Cynthia down with Xo, for advocating a modified version of freedom.....freedom to chose things that only they believe is ok for someone else to chose.


Wisdom is the key here. Think in terms of the long RUN...not in terms of the greed, Sirs.

Personally, I'll stick with Freedom, if you don't mind



You sure do know how to JUMP to conclusions that make no sense to the original point..counter point.




"Especially since I'm not making it"

previous post....
"Hard to get the same level of protection & practicality in a yugo ."

As you insert the YUGO in the argument, I take that as a comparison of the two vehicles. Ummm, thus the "making of an argument between the two vehicles".


"LOL....yea....right.....mothers probably wanting to protect their children is such a cop out "

Once again, sirs, witht all due respect, dear.... you twist the statement in your favor. I never said THAT. Mothers are guilty of wanting to protect their children??!!

"Umm, ok, so you have an obsessive beef with those that want the freedom to buy it as well. Gotcha. 

I guess we can put Cynthia down with Xo, for advocating a modified version of freedom.....freedom to chose things that only they believe is ok for someone else to chose."


Ok, that is YOUR argument? WE? How many toads do you carry in your pocket there Sirs....(here come the judge)....Look out Cynthia...BT approaching. ha!

Obsessive BEEF? Ok what?

hmmm, your willingness to jump to such  a conclusion here, does not hold enough water to fill a TBs, Sirs.


"Personally, I'll stick with Freedom, if you don't mind."

Another leap from Frog Sirs.


What?

And I don't want freedom for this nation?.....freedom from raping the land and air we breathe?
Give me a break.



Hey, Sirs, I have a question for you about PT for a friend of mine who suffers back probs.

Side bar....hey Gary, I have a good friend who lives in Utah. He has back problems. He's 60. I thought I would pick your brain about how to help the guy out with his pain. We are "online" friends. So, I told him about Feldenckrais? SP?
What do you know about that?
Cyn


« Last Edit: April 24, 2008, 11:24:24 PM by Cynthia »

Plane

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2008, 11:40:53 PM »
I hardly knew that the pope spoke on the subject of big cars , let alone the wrongness and ugllyness of the H3.


But that he spoke also of rocket science and Yugos also?


Clearly I am not paying enough attention.

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2008, 12:03:05 AM »
Well, in this heady time of rotten environmental progress, anything is possible,Plane. ;)

Plane

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2008, 12:06:37 AM »
Well, in this heady time of rotten environmental progress, anything is possible,Plane. ;)


What environmental problem is bugging you?

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2008, 12:26:31 AM »
Where do I begin?

 Where do I begin, Plane?

To begin......where have all the frogs gone.

More later.

 ;)

Plane

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2008, 12:38:13 AM »
Consensus is gathering , .....

polutant challenges make frogs more vunerable to oppurtunistic infections...

most commonly farm runoff, but anything that weakens the frogs opens their normally impressive immune system to the fungal and parasitic infections that a healthy frog can fight off.


Quote
Parasite (Ribeiroia ondatrae) infection linked to amphibian malformations in the western United States. Ecological Monographs 72:151-168.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Building upon earlier laboratory experiments demonstrating that trematode parasites can induce deformities in developing frogs, this remarkable and ambitious field survey establishes conclusively that parasites are a major contributor to frog deformities in the American west. The research team, led by Pieter Johnson, found a strong geographic association between the abundance of Ribeiroia ondatrae, a trematode parasite, and the frequency of deformities in a series of amphibian species, including the western toad Bufo boreas, the Pacific treefrog Hyla regilla and the long-toed salamander Ambystoma macrodactylum. Their research also revealed no relationship between the concentrations of a large number of pesticides measured in pond water and the frequency of deformities.

As noted below, these results do not absolve contamination of a role in amphibian deformities, but they certainly demonstrate the importance of parasites in the American west.

 

What did they do? Johnson et al. surveyed amphibian deformities, parasite abundance, chemical characteristics and a host of other parameters (including presence of fish, cattle, snails, surrounding land use, wetland origen) in aquatic habitats in California, Oregon, Washington, Idaho and Montana. Their chemical measurements involved determining the concentrations of 52 different pesticides (and nine metabolites), plus pH, levels of nitrate and orthophosphate. At each site they collected 3-6 specimens of each amphibian present; these specimens were later dissected and examined for parasite infections.

They then carried out a series of statistical analyses looking for associations between observed incidence of amphibian deformities and the many environmental parameters they measured.

What did they find? Johnson et al. inspected 12,369 individuals representing 11 species of amphibians and reported deformities in 9 of the species examined. The frequency of abnormalities in sites varied from 0 to nearly 90% of animals examined. Deformities included a diversity of limb anomalies (including missing limbs and digits, extra limbs and digits) and, less frequently, missing eyes, jaw malformations and other abnormalities.

Three findings stand out.

First, they observed a very strong association between the abundance of Ribeiroia and amphibian deformities. This association is demonstrated in the following two graphs:

 The frequency of amphibian malformations in relation to the presence or absence of Ribeiroia. In sites where Ribeiroia is absent, deformities were observed in fewer than 5% of animals surveyed.

 

 http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/NEWSCIENCE/wildlife/frogs/2002-0501johnsonetal.htm



Quote
The following is a list of the most common frog diseases and their treatments. This is not a complete list, just what you will most likely encounter. As always, you should consult your institution?s Veterinary staff if you have concerns with your particular colony.  Your best defense against disease in your colony is to be a very careful observer.


http://www.xlaevis.com/diseases.html

Quote
  Frog-deforming infections caused by tiny parasites are increasing
because of North American farms' nutrient-rich watershed, a new study
shows.


The excess nitrogen and phosphorus found in farm runoff causes more
algae to grow, which increases snail populations that host microscopic
parasites called trematodes, said Pieter Johnson, a water scientist at
the University of Colorado in Boulder.


"This is the first study to show that nutrient enrichment drives the
abundance of these parasites, increasing levels of amphibian infection
and subsequent malformations," said Johnson.
 


http://lists.dep.state.fl.us/pipermail/pharmwaste/2007-September/001365.html

Quote
   This is the frog terminator: Batrachochytrium dendrobatidis, a fungus decimating complete populations of frogs and other amphibian species worldwide. The fungus kills off the frogs by clogging their skin and essentially asphyxiating them. By now it spread from Central America to Australia, Japan, Europe and the US. Researchers have been looking helplessly at this frog slayer how adding to habitat loss, climate change, contamination and exp........
http://news.softpedia.com/newsTag/frog+


http://www.issg.org/database/species/ecology.asp?fr=1&si=123
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 12:49:57 AM by Plane »

Universe Prince

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2008, 01:02:23 AM »

I am proud to be a Catholic today. The wisdom of our Pope rings such truth. God bless him.

His words are prophetic, indeed.


In what way are his words prophetic?


"As he praised the spread of democracy and respect for human rights, the pope cautioned about the dangers people face in the modern world.

"I am thinking of those affected by drug and substance abuse, homelessness and poverty, racism, violence and degradation -- especially of girls and women," the pope said.


I suppose these are dangers in the modern world, but they are also dangers that have been around a very long time.


And he decried "new injustices," including environmental problems.

The Earth "groans under the weight of consumerist greed and irresponsible exploitation," he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/19/pope.sat/index.html


Consumerist greed and irresponsible exploitation. As I understand it, those places where "consumerist greed" is highest are also the places doing the most about environmental problems and irresponsible exploitation.

And I am left wondering if by "consumerist greed" the Pope means the folks who have loans and mortgages that are in default and now want the government to do something to bail them out. Because that indeed just might be prophetic.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Cynthia

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2008, 01:08:09 AM »

I am proud to be a Catholic today. The wisdom of our Pope rings such truth. God bless him.

His words are prophetic, indeed.


In what way are his words prophetic?


"As he praised the spread of democracy and respect for human rights, the pope cautioned about the dangers people face in the modern world.

"I am thinking of those affected by drug and substance abuse, homelessness and poverty, racism, violence and degradation -- especially of girls and women," the pope said.


I suppose these are dangers in the modern world, but they are also dangers that have been around a very long time.


And he decried "new injustices," including environmental problems.

The Earth "groans under the weight of consumerist greed and irresponsible exploitation," he said."

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/04/19/pope.sat/index.html


Consumerist greed and irresponsible exploitation. As I understand it, those places where "consumerist greed" is highest are also the places doing the most about environmental problems and irresponsible exploitation.

And I am left wondering if by "consumerist greed" the Pope means the folks who have loans and mortgages that are in default and now want the government to do something to bail them out. Because that indeed just might be prophetic.


Prophetic in the fact that our environment needs to be addressed. When we see such a rip off of the land beneath our very noses, and feet....I say, anyone who acknowledges that "burn"....speaks truth.



"I suppose these are dangers in the modern world, but they are also dangers that have been around a very long time."


And there have been those who believe in Jesus as a savior with room for many who want salvation for a long time, as well.


Universe Prince

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Re: Dangers of the Modern World
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2008, 01:19:25 AM »

Prophetic in the fact that our environment needs to be addressed. When we see such a rip off of the land beneath our very noses, and feet....I say, anyone who acknowledges that "burn"....speaks truth.


Acknowledging a truth is not the same as prophecy.


"I suppose these are dangers in the modern world, but they are also dangers that have been around a very long time."

And there have been those who believe in Jesus as a savior with room for many who want salvation for a long time, as well.


I agree, but I confess I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--