Dangers of the Modern World

[Cynthia]

"And I am left wondering if by "consumerist greed" the Pope means the folks who have loans and mortgages that are in default and now want the government to do something to bail them out. Because that indeed just might be prophetic."

Could be true. I doubt it, but who knows?

I am not the Pope.

Don't know what he meant, really....or  directly.

 

Frankly, there is a river of folk who believe that consumer greed means "BUY BUY BUY" when WANT WANT WANT is the only priority.   The Pope, being the Pope could have had in mind that the world doesn't give enough to the "other fella" in terms of compassion. Instead one buys up everything that one does not really need, strikes the chord of the day.
Mother Theresa lived on very little and wasted nothing....living a more fulfilling life than most, in the eyes of Holy Folk.

So, who knows what the Pope meant by that statement?

Wonder on, though dear Prince. 

Consumer greed....we are all guilty of that one.

[Universe Prince]

Frankly, there is a river of folk who believe that consumer greed means "BUY BUY BUY" when WANT WANT WANT is the only priority.

I'm sure there are folks who believe that. And perhaps that is what those people mean when they mention "consumerist greed". But that belief seems like a rather low opinion of other people.

The Pope, being the Pope could have had in mind that the world doesn't give enough to the "other fella" in terms of compassion.

You mean like assuming that other people are greedy and base merely because they have an SUV or buy DVD players?

Instead one buys up everything that one does not really need, strikes the chord of the day.

"God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even SUV drivers."

Mother Theresa lived on very little and wasted nothing....living a more fulfilling life than most, in the eyes of Holy Folk.

You advocate poverty as a better way to live then?

Wonder on, though dear Prince. 

Consumer greed....we are all guilty of that one.

Are we? I am unconvinced.

[Xavier_Onassis]

To some degree, everyone is 'guilty' of consumer greed. We all want and buy things we do not actually NEED. None of us here NEED a computer, though it would be more difficult for me to get by on the ancient Windows 2000 thing that the University provides me with.

I see excessive consumer greed as buying things that are excessively detrimental to the environment. If I keep my aged Diesel car, that is in some way less detrimental than putting a new gas guzzler on the road, since I use biodiesel, which is renewable, in my old cars. If I buy a new car and sell my old ones, both run pretty well and are very durable, so someone would be driving them for a while, but somewhere down the chain, someone will junk another car, and that could add to pollution of the environment more than the status quo.

Buying used things is less detrimental, because  it does not cause more use of fertilizer to grow more cotton or to grow or mine other resources.

I don't think Mother Theresa is anyone I choose to emulate, but maybe she did have a lighter footprint on the environment than many people do. Her main contribution to pollution was probably flying about to raise money and accept awards, but I don;t know how much of this she actually did.

[Plane]

"And I am left wondering if by "consumerist greed" the Pope means the folks who have loans and mortgages that are in default and now want the government to do something to bail them out. Because that indeed just might be prophetic."

Could be true. I doubt it, but who knows?

I am not the Pope.

Don't know what he meant, really....or  directly.

 

Frankly, there is a river of folk who believe that consumer greed means "BUY BUY BUY" when WANT WANT WANT is the only priority.   The Pope, being the Pope could have had in mind that the world doesn't give enough to the "other fella" in terms of compassion. Instead one buys up everything that one does not really need, strikes the chord of the day.
Mother Theresa lived on very little and wasted nothing....living a more fulfilling life than most, in the eyes of Holy Folk.

So, who knows what the Pope meant by that statement?

Wonder on, though dear Prince. 

Consumer greed....we are all guilty of that one.

Well if "consumerist greed and irresponsible exploitation," means anything that one wants it to mean , then I want it to mean Chinese manufacturers who scrimp on paint cost by using toxic cheap paint on toys and antifreese to sweeten pet food , thereby shocking and repelling their customer base.

That is what I want it to mean.

[Universe Prince]

To some degree, everyone is 'guilty' of consumer greed. We all want and buy things we do not actually NEED.

So buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed?

[Cynthia]

To some degree, everyone is 'guilty' of consumer greed. We all want and buy things we do not actually NEED. None of us here NEED a computer, though it would be more difficult for me to get by on the ancient Windows 2000 thing that the University provides me with.

I see excessive consumer greed as buying things that are excessively detrimental to the environment. If I keep my aged Diesel car, that is in some way less detrimental than putting a new gas guzzler on the road, since I use biodiesel, which is renewable, in my old cars. If I buy a new car and sell my old ones, both run pretty well and are very durable, so someone would be driving them for a while, but somewhere down the chain, someone will junk another car, and that could add to pollution of the environment more than the status quo.

Buying used things is less detrimental, because  it does not cause more use of fertilizer to grow more cotton or to grow or mine other resources.

I don't think Mother Theresa is anyone I choose to emulate, but maybe she did have a lighter footprint on the environment than many people do. Her main contribution to pollution was probably flying about to raise money and accept awards, but I don;t know how much of this she actually did.

I do believe that you've hit a point, XO.

UP, you probably do have some sort of consumer greed packed away somewhere in your life. One greed leads to another and before you know it, the greed seems like the norm in terms of "stuff".

The Pope's statement is what was at question here for me. So, I bring in Mother Theresa's choices-albeit extreme to most of us---uh...no, almost all of us. And sure there are consumer greed examples which tip the balance in the other direction, but overall we have all chosen to ride that wagon in some way or another. Unless you are a monk in a Monastery somewhere, sure.

You have to admit, UP, that we continue to buy what we feel we "need", when perhaps we just want becuase it is too hard to do without.....we would have  make major changes in life (changes that were the norm just 25 years ago). Like buying a newspaper, talking on the landline, walking to the neighborhood store instead of driving 10 miles to the WalMart super center for our need for it ALL!


 People dont' need a television set, or a cell phone, or a microwave oven, or even an extra vehicle----not to mention a computer or two. Not really. But most of us live with such "norms".

When will this world put on the brakes in terms of "stuff" that makes natural living almost impossible?

Perhaps never. That's the way of the consumer driven world in which we live.

Perhpas the Pope's statement was general overall, and indeed one person's greed is another person's norm. So where do we draw the line? We don't. This is America. Land of PLENTY FOR ALL ....YET, CHILDREN ARE NOT READING AS MUCH AT HOME AS THEY SHOULD !!
hmmmm, wonder if the Pope was referring to the consumer greed of the TV, VIDEO, and GAMEBOY which is currently ripping off the child's mind in this nation. Ya think?
Of course, then there's the lifestyle changes that are slowing creeping up. If I owned a horse, I would ride it to work. I saw that on CnN this am.
Not a bad idea.

[Cynthia]

To some degree, everyone is 'guilty' of consumer greed. We all want and buy things we do not actually NEED.

So buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed?

My question to you is, what makes that "item" so necessary? WANTING More of the same is just wanting MUCH MORE of the same---- and that leads to greed.

Wanting and needing have somehow crossed wires. Greed is the hidden spark within that bad connection.

SLippery Slope greed is....a very slippery slope.

The more we have the more we want.

[Universe Prince]

So buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed?

My question to you is, what makes that "item" so necessary? WANTING More of the same is just wanting MUCH MORE of the same---- and that leads to greed.

Wanting and needing have somehow crossed wires. Greed is the hidden spark within that bad connection.

SLippery Slope greed is....a very slippery slope.

The more we have the more we want.

So... you are then in fact saying that buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed? You seem to be.

[Universe Prince]

When will this world put on the brakes in terms of "stuff" that makes natural living almost impossible?

Perhaps never. That's the way of the consumer driven world in which we live.

No one is stopping you from joining the Amish or the Mennonites. Personally, I like the consumer driven world and wish it were a little more consumer driven.

Perhpas the Pope's statement was general overall, and indeed one person's greed is another person's norm. So where do we draw the line? We don't.

Is that what you want? Someone to draw the line, to determine for you what and how much you should be allowed to own?

Ya think?

At least once a day. Thanks for asking.

[Cynthia]

When will this world put on the brakes in terms of "stuff" that makes natural living almost impossible?

Perhaps never. That's the way of the consumer driven world in which we live.

No one is stopping you from joining the Amish or the Mennonites. Personally, I like the consumer driven world and wish it were a little more consumer driven.

Perhpas the Pope's statement was general overall, and indeed one person's greed is another person's norm. So where do we draw the line? We don't.

Is that what you want? Someone to draw the line, to determine for you what and how much you should be allowed to own?

Ya think?

At least once a day. Thanks for asking.

At least once a day. Thanks for asking.

 ---


Personally, I like the consumer driven world and wish it were a little more consumer driven

Well, Prince, imo, there is a danger in the more the consumer driven the better. Gluttony is where THAT attitude is headed.
Landfills, waste, pollution.....water is precious in this world and we use so much of that resource alone to feed the greed.

How much can we take.....poor frogs.
They not only die out.....they are boiled out.
You've heard that story.....


Put a frog in a pot of water which is slowly boiling and before he knows it at the point of BOIL..when it's too late- HE'S DEAD.

Put a frog in a pot of water which has already reached its boiling point, and HE will jump right out...saving his little froggie life!

We are slowly being convinced that WE NEED STUFF in this world. . . get ready to see the panic in about 50-100 years +.....that is if we continue on this wasteful consumer driven (without responsibility) road.

[Cynthia]

So buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed?

My question to you is, what makes that "item" so necessary? WANTING More of the same is just wanting MUCH MORE of the same---- and that leads to greed.

Wanting and needing have somehow crossed wires. Greed is the hidden spark within that bad connection.

SLippery Slope greed is....a very slippery slope.

The more we have the more we want.

So... you are then in fact saying that buying something not absolutely necessary for survival is always and without exception necessarily greed? You seem to be.

I am saying that it is a slippery slope. Greed is waiting at the bottom of that slope for us to fall into a place where we've lost touch with what was necessary to survive and what was just plain bottom out dollar.....lust for more.

[Universe Prince]

Well, Prince, imo, there is a danger in the more the consumer driven the better.

Of course there is. There is a danger in most things. But as Jefferson said, "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."

 Gluttony is where THAT attitude is headed.
Landfills, waste, pollution.....water is precious in this world and we use so much of that resource alone to feed the greed.

Is it? Landfills are not necessarily bad. But without this "consumerist greed", we might very well lack the technologies that allow us to find new ways to cut our water consumption. And I should also note that it is "consumerist greed" that makes finding new ways to cut our water consumption profitable.

We are slowly being convinced that WE NEED STUFF in this world. . . get ready to see the panic in about 50-100 years +.....that is if we continue on this wasteful consumer driven (without responsibility) road.

You mean kinda like how 50 years ago we were all going to be starving by now because of the population explosion?

Consumers are the ones driving the demand for things like hydrogen cars and wind farms and environmentally friendly production methods, et cetera. So seems to me, consumer driven is not the horrible tragedy some folks make it out to be.

[Plane]

Does the market have wisdom?

Or need it?

[Xavier_Onassis]

Does the market have wisdom?

Or need it?

==========================
Of course it has none, and of course, wisdom is needed.

Were it not for the inane SUV craze, gas prices would be more reasonable, because there would be more available. All that needed to happen was to declare the same cafe standards for cars as for light trucks.


Left entirely up to the market, there are panics, crises, recessions and depressions on a cyclical basis. There were none during the Clinton years because actions were taken to keep the economy on an even keel.

Tax policy is related to market fluctuations, as are many other things, like the Fed's discount rate and such.

[Plane]

Does the market have wisdom?

Or need it?

==========================
Of course it has none, and of course, wisdom is needed.

Were it not for the inane SUV craze, gas prices would be more reasonable, because there would be more available. All that needed to happen was to declare the same cafe standards for cars as for light trucks.


Left entirely up to the market, there are panics, crises, recessions and depressions on a cyclical basis. There were none during the Clinton years because actions were taken to keep the economy on an even keel.

Tax policy is related to market fluctuations, as are many other things, like the Fed's discount rate and such.

Who in particular has more wisdom ,in reguards price and value , than the auction house? or the stock market ? or free markets in general?