Author Topic: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture  (Read 48707 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2008, 11:08:45 PM »

Quote
In 2002, an AFA spokesman decried a pregnant version of Barbie's married sidekick Midge that featured a trap-door stomach with an adorable unborn baby inside it, exclaiming that "Mattel should stay out of the 'birds and bees' business and leave adult themes alone." (Yes, you read that right; the American Family Association is officially against childbirth.)

I fail to see how is the AFA is officially against childbirth on this one.


The author of the article was being sarcastic.

No, I disagree.

It was a low blow and not very funny.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #106 on: May 11, 2008, 12:34:20 AM »

All right, how are these facts proven?


I've pointed to a few articles. I'm not sure what you expect me to do. Go to France and interview each every rioter?


You are not the only one I think is in denial , I think you are finding lots of sorces to quote who are in denial.


Ah. I see. Anyone not agreeing with you is in denial. Okay. Glad we cleared that up.

Oh no no , only those who do not agree with you are in denial .

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #107 on: May 11, 2008, 08:10:30 AM »
n 2002, an AFA spokesman decried a pregnant version of Barbie's married sidekick Midge that featured a trap-door stomach with an adorable unborn baby inside it, exclaiming that "Mattel should stay out of the 'birds and bees' business and leave adult themes alone." (Yes, you read that right; the American Family Association is officially against childbirth.)

I fail to see how is the AFA is officially against childbirth on this one.


The author of the article was being sarcastic.

No, I disagree.

It was a low blow and not very funny.
========================================================
I doubt that the AFA is against childbirth.

There is something rather, well, WEIRD about Mattell telling little girls about the birds and the bees with a plastic womb. I don't think one needs to be against childbirth to oppose a corporation claiming the right, duty or whatever to tell life's story in polystyrene with trapdoor wombs.

I am not sure if this was a low blow, but it was a funny remark. Not a LOL, but I did emit a small snicker.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #108 on: May 11, 2008, 08:53:03 AM »

Quote
Ah. I see. Anyone not agreeing with you is in denial. Okay. Glad we cleared that up.

Oh no no , only those who do not agree with you are in denial .


"I know you are but what am I?" Pooh yi.

No, Plane, I don't say that if someone disagrees with me then that person is in denial. When presented with facts, however, if the person denies the facts, then I think that qualifies as denial. Some people here want to talk about riots in France as Muslim riots as if the only people rioting were Muslims who were religious zealots. No part of the reporting about the facts supports that stance. I am not saying there were no Muslims involved or that Muslims were not the majority of the rioters. However, that Muslims were the majority of the rioters has a lot to do with the economics and social issues involved and almost nothing to do with the religion. My investigation into the facts shows me that not only was there practically no religious component to the riots, Muslims were not the only ones involved. I've presented some this here, and still I keep getting told that I'm the one in denial and riots were wholly Muslim in nature. And on top of that, you're now claiming my sources are in denial. Apparently, anything that contradicts your version of the riots is going to be considered by you to be a denial. On the other hand, while I have disputed opinions about the riots, I have not denied any of the actual evidence you and others have brought to the discussion.

And so, we're done.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #109 on: May 11, 2008, 02:46:20 PM »

Quote
Ah. I see. Anyone not agreeing with you is in denial. Okay. Glad we cleared that up.

Oh no no , only those who do not agree with you are in denial .


"I know you are but what am I?" Pooh yi.

No, Plane, I don't say that if someone disagrees with me then that person is in denial. When presented with facts, however, if the person denies the facts, then I think that qualifies as denial. Some people here want to talk about riots in France as Muslim riots as if the only people rioting were Muslims who were religious zealots. No part of the reporting about the facts supports that stance. I am not saying there were no Muslims involved or that Muslims were not the majority of the rioters. However, that Muslims were the majority of the rioters has a lot to do with the economics and social issues involved and almost nothing to do with the religion. My investigation into the facts shows me that not only was there practically no religious component to the riots, Muslims were not the only ones involved. I've presented some this here, and still I keep getting told that I'm the one in denial and riots were wholly Muslim in nature. And on top of that, you're now claiming my sources are in denial. Apparently, anything that contradicts your version of the riots is going to be considered by you to be a denial. On the other hand, while I have disputed opinions about the riots, I have not denied any of the actual evidence you and others have brought to the discussion.

And so, we're done.


From where do you get your facts?

Everyone knows that the internet is not 100% valid when it comes to  factual information.

So, do we cut and paste from Fox News?

;)

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #110 on: May 11, 2008, 02:53:38 PM »
n 2002, an AFA spokesman decried a pregnant version of Barbie's married sidekick Midge that featured a trap-door stomach with an adorable unborn baby inside it, exclaiming that "Mattel should stay out of the 'birds and bees' business and leave adult themes alone." (Yes, you read that right; the American Family Association is officially against childbirth.)

I fail to see how is the AFA is officially against childbirth on this one.


The author of the article was being sarcastic.

No, I disagree.

It was a low blow and not very funny.
========================================================
I doubt that the AFA is against childbirth.

There is something rather, well, WEIRD about Mattell telling little girls about the birds and the bees with a plastic womb. I don't think one needs to be against childbirth to oppose a corporation claiming the right, duty or whatever to tell life's story in polystyrene with trapdoor wombs.

I am not sure if this was a low blow, but it was a funny remark. Not a LOL, but I did emit a small snicker.

Ok, a Low snicker, then.
But, when statements are made with regard to childbirth, I see nothing humorous about it in the context such as this.
Sarcastic, humourous, low or high blow.....the statement was OUT THERE....and it directly or indirectly pointed the "snicker" in the direction of the AFA.

Those who are in the AFA are not necessarily snickering on this one...as THIS statement was made with a deeper level of sarcasm....meant to dig", I'd say...more of a DIG.


Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #111 on: May 11, 2008, 04:17:55 PM »

Quote
Ah. I see. Anyone not agreeing with you is in denial. Okay. Glad we cleared that up.

Oh no no , only those who do not agree with you are in denial .


"I know you are but what am I?" Pooh yi.

No, Plane, I don't say that if someone disagrees with me then that person is in denial. When presented with facts, however, if the person denies the facts, then I think that qualifies as denial. Some people here want to talk about riots in France as Muslim riots as if the only people rioting were Muslims who were religious zealots. No part of the reporting about the facts supports that stance. I am not saying there were no Muslims involved or that Muslims were not the majority of the rioters. However, that Muslims were the majority of the rioters has a lot to do with the economics and social issues involved and almost nothing to do with the religion. My investigation into the facts shows me that not only was there practically no religious component to the riots, Muslims were not the only ones involved. I've presented some this here, and still I keep getting told that I'm the one in denial and riots were wholly Muslim in nature. And on top of that, you're now claiming my sources are in denial. Apparently, anything that contradicts your version of the riots is going to be considered by you to be a denial. On the other hand, while I have disputed opinions about the riots, I have not denied any of the actual evidence you and others have brought to the discussion.

And so, we're done.


What are the non - Islam related issues of the riots?

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #112 on: May 11, 2008, 06:39:39 PM »
What are the non - Islam related issues of the riots?

=========================================
The lack of jobs for Muslim young people is the main cause of the riots. They have no jobs and cannot get jobs. French businessmen would prefer to hire French young people for the few jobs that are available: they come from smaller families, marry when older and therefore have fewer issues that cause them to be absent from work, and the customers prefer to deal with fellow French people. So dpo their felow workers. Jacques gets along better with Didier and Jules than with Muhammoud.

Once someone has worked in a job in France for two years or so, they are hard to fire, because to French labor laws.

If all these guys were employed, there would have been no riots.

In the Aroundissements 1 through 8, near the center of Paris, you see no graffitti or young men hanging out on the corners. In the 2oieme Aroundissement, there is graffitti galore and young Algerians hanging out all over the place. They live with their large families in cramped public housing and have nowhere else to hang out.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #113 on: May 11, 2008, 10:22:14 PM »
What are the non - Islam related issues of the riots?

=========================================
The lack of jobs for Muslim young people is the main cause of the riots. They have no jobs and cannot get jobs. French businessmen would prefer to hire French young people for the few jobs that are available: they come from smaller families, marry when older and therefore have fewer issues that cause them to be absent from work, and the customers prefer to deal with fellow French people. So dpo their felow workers. Jacques gets along better with Didier and Jules than with Muhammoud.

Once someone has worked in a job in France for two years or so, they are hard to fire, because to French labor laws.

If all these guys were employed, there would have been no riots.

In the Aroundissements 1 through 8, near the center of Paris, you see no graffitti or young men hanging out on the corners. In the 2oieme Aroundissement, there is graffitti galore and young Algerians hanging out all over the place. They live with their large families in cramped public housing and have nowhere else to hang out.

Do you mean that economic issues are the root problems?

But does the ethnic makeup of the uemployed matter , does Islam matter to this ethnic divide?

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2008, 12:40:07 AM »

From where do you get your facts?

Everyone knows that the internet is not 100% valid when it comes to  factual information.

So, do we cut and paste from Fox News?


I don't. I do stick generally to news outlets though. Reuters seems generally reliable, the BBC, New York Times, AP, UPI, places like that. But don't be fooled, and I mean this sarcastically, because Plane assures me they're all in denial.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2008, 12:47:32 AM »

From where do you get your facts?

Everyone knows that the internet is not 100% valid when it comes to  factual information.

So, do we cut and paste from Fox News?


I don't. I do stick generally to news outlets though. Reuters seems generally reliable, the BBC, New York Times, AP, UPI, places like that. But don't be fooled, and I mean this sarcastically, because Plane assures me they're all in denial.

I don't have any better access to the facts , but I trust one and you another , one of the reasons that I apply such a prejudice to many reports is the European habit of minimiseing the religious problem and locking up people who libel Islam.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2008, 12:59:21 AM »
Left-leaning journalists don't just pull their punches when it comes to criticizing liberal politicians, they also seem paradoxically inclined to do so when it comes to discussing radical Islam. This curious phenomenon (curious in that modern liberalism is highly secular and radical Islam decidedly is not) has repeated itself many times over the years and is really one of the most bizarre behaviors I've seen in politics.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/matthew-sheffield/2008/05/09/pulling-punches-wapo-pulls-article-being-too-critical-islam



http://europenews.dk/en

http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2008/may14/cartoons-050408.html

A group of editors who decided to run the cartoons are being tried on blasphemy charges in absentia in a Jordanian court. Death threats against the cartoonist who drew Muhammad with a bomb nested in his turban have forced the 73-year-old and his wife into hiding. And writers, artists and performers are stifling themselves from producing work that might provoke violence from Muslim extremists, said Flemming Rose, the cultural editor of Jyllands-Posten.

During a talk Wednesday at Cubberley Auditorium, Rose addressed the continued fallout from the cartoons while railing against what he described as an international increase in hate-speech laws, including prohibitions in some countries against Holocaust denial theories.

"These insult laws?blasphemy laws that are intended to protect religious symbols or religious sensibilities?in fact are being used to silence critical voices around the world. I think we have to remove them. I think the only laws that are needed to be kept on the books when it comes to speech are laws that criminalizes incitement to violence."


http://www.investors.com/editorial/editorialcontent.asp?secid=1501&status=article&id=293066136982306
Islamofascism: Suicide bombs aren't the only chilling weapon Islamists are using in their war to the death with Western civilization. Exploiting the free world's laws on libel and so-called hate speech, they intimidate truth-telling writers.

When American Center for Democracy director Rachel Ehrenfeld in 2003 authored "Funding Evil: How Terrorism Is Financed ? and How to Stop It," she was intellectually taking part in the global war on terror. But she also ended up becoming enmeshed in an international legal war.

Saudi banker and suspected al-Qaida financial supporter Sheikh Khalid bin Mahfouz and his sons were named in the book and Mahfouz sued Ehrenfeld for libel in Britain ? although only 23 copies of the American-published "Funding Evil" were purchased there, online.

British libel law is notoriously geared to the advantage of the plaintiff. So Ehrenfeld chose not to defend her case, and in 2005 High Court Justice Sir David Eady pronounced a default judgment ordering Ehrenfeld to apologize and pay $225,000.

Ehrenfeld countersued in the U.S., but the courts ruled they had no personal jurisdiction over Mahfouz under New York state law. As a result, Ehrenfeld is now discouraged from traveling abroad to promote her important, potentially life-saving work. And publishers, too, will be discouraged from printing her future books by the fear of being sued for large sums of money.




Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2008, 01:02:15 AM »
Quote
This essay is a response to an essay authored by John Matthies and published by PajamasMedia and Middel East Forum. It is part of a broader debate concerning what some maintain is a resurgent (and possibly dangerous) ?Far Right? movement, while others maintain that no such thing is taking place, and that the notion constitutes scaremongering based on misunderstanding and misinterpretations of the facts on the ground.

The author of this response....

http://europenews.dk/en/node/9663
The title has a couple of interesting details. First, it assumes that the ?Europe's Far Right? is a connected movement, that there is a rise of a coordinated ?Far Right? movement in Europe. We in Europe might look around and say ?Where, who, what?? to that, but is sure triggers curiosity.

Second, the notion of the ?Far Right? itself is ambiguous. What exactly is the ?Far Right?? It has a negative connotation, it is 'bad' to be ?Far Right?. As to what that means, that is immaterial. The very concept of 'left' and 'right' stems from the time of the French revolution, where the left would be the radicals and the right would be the conservatives, as seated in the national assembly.

But this clear distinction would hardly apply here, as we are more than two centuries away from that. What then is the ?Far Right?? Jonah Goldberg in his profound and entertaining book Liberal Fascism? probably has the only workable definition: Left is statist (in support of the big state, high taxes), Right is libertarian, as in minimal taxes, minimal state............
[][][][[][][[][][[][]][][][[][][][[][]

« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 01:06:21 AM by Plane »

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0

Xavier_Onassis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27916
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Defeat Tehran not with bombs but with culture
« Reply #119 on: May 12, 2008, 08:17:59 AM »
Left is statist (in support of the big state, high taxes), Right is libertarian, as in minimal taxes, minimal state............
=-==========================================================================================


If this is true, then Obama, Hillary and McCain are all leftists, since there is no chance that government will do anything but grow if any of them is elected.


On the right, MIGHT be Ron Paul. We can't be sure what might occur if he were president, but then again, he has only a slightly better chance of being elected than, say, Lyndon LaRouche.


The reason to have a powerful government in an era in which many companies are larger than governments is easy for anyone to see: The companies will rule for their own benefit and the people will have no defense against this.

A contract is an agreement between two parties. Supposedly each has an equal right to draw up the contract.
But there are no rental contracts that do not absolutely favor the landlord.
There are no insurance policies that do not absolutely favor the company.
There are no health plans that do not absolutely favor the company.

Often, the individual must agree that all disputes will be settled out of court by an arbitror of the company's choosing.

Only a government can defend the individual against this sort of abuse. Only a powerful government can be taken seriously.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 12:23:54 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."