Author Topic: Maybe I Should Move to California  (Read 19158 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2008, 07:34:23 PM »

Has McCain had anything to say about this?


Not that I can find. I think he has said in the past that states ought to be allowed to ban same-sex marriage, but has also opposed a federal marriage amendment. But I could be wrong.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Rich

  • Guest
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2008, 07:35:07 PM »
You?

Wrong?

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2008, 07:55:15 PM »
It's happened. I'm not afraid to admit it. Besides which, McCain may have changed his position.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2008, 10:27:58 PM »

A deaf couple want to make their child deaf , using invitro tecniques to ensure it.

Why not , what right does this child have ?

Does a prospective child have a right to the best body it might naturally get, or the right to parents that are sensible?


Is being deaf inherently a bad thing? Obviously the parents do not believe so. Are they wrong? If they are, why are the wrong?


I would not be against a mentally handicapped person haveing a child , do parents indeed have a right to ensure that their children will be compatibly handicaped?

Amianthus

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7574
  • Bring on the flames...
    • View Profile
    • Mario's Home Page
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2008, 10:58:04 PM »
Not that I can find. I think he has said in the past that states ought to be allowed to ban same-sex marriage, but has also opposed a federal marriage amendment. But I could be wrong.

Quote
Protecting Marriage

As president, John McCain would nominate judges who understand that the role of the Court is not to subvert the rights of the people by legislating from the bench. Critical to Constitutional balance is ensuring that, where state and local governments do act to preserve the traditional family, the Courts must not overstep their authority and thwart the Constitutional right of the people to decide this question.

The family represents the foundation of Western Civilization and civil society and John McCain believes the institution of marriage is a union between one man and one woman. It is only this definition that sufficiently recognizes the vital and unique role played by mothers and fathers in the raising of children, and the role of the family in shaping, stabilizing, and strengthening communities and our nation.

As with most issues vital to the preservation and health of civil society, the basic responsibility for preserving and strengthening the family should reside at the level of government closest to the people. In their wisdom, the Founding Fathers reserved for the States the authority and responsibility to protect and strengthen the vital institutions of our civil society. They did so to ensure that the voices of America's families could not be ignored by an indifferent national government or suffocated through filibusters and clever legislative maneuvering in Congress.
John McCain 2008 - On the Issues
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2008, 01:01:34 AM »

I would not be against a mentally handicapped person haveing a child , do parents indeed have a right to ensure that their children will be compatibly handicaped?


Is a deaf person handicapped? Many deaf people do not consider being deaf a disability. Do parents have a right to ensure their child has blue eyes or red hair? Does anyone really care if they try? Obviously some deaf people consider being deaf something that is not inherently a bad thing. You haven't explained why they should.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2008, 01:10:09 AM »
Thanks, Amianthus. I was right after all. Ta da!  ;-]
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2008, 01:13:24 AM »

I would not be against a mentally handicapped person haveing a child , do parents indeed have a right to ensure that their children will be compatibly handicaped?


Is a deaf person handicapped? Many deaf people do not consider being deaf a disability. Do parents have a right to ensure their child has blue eyes or red hair? Does anyone really care if they try? Obviously some deaf people consider being deaf something that is not inherently a bad thing. You haven't explained why they should.

I havent really said so either  , tho I am bringing up parellel ideas hopeing to reduce to rediculous this idea.

If a parent wanted a child to be less than as fully abled as nature would make him , this is an unnatural parent  , tho whether a parent might have the right to make a child better than nature could make him is another interesting question.

It may not be long before implantable devices , or genetic modifacations  are availible to make a child better than nature ever has made , there is no right to normalcy protected in our law right now , should there be such a thing ? or might we need some Frankenstien parent first to demonstrate the need?

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2008, 01:14:33 AM »

I would not be against a mentally handicapped person haveing a child , do parents indeed have a right to ensure that their children will be compatibly handicaped?


Is a deaf person handicapped?

Yes

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2008, 01:29:22 AM »

Quote
Is a deaf person handicapped?

Yes


If they don't think so, why do you?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2008, 01:32:08 AM »

there is no right to normalcy protected in our law right now , should there be such a thing ?


And what, exactly, is "normalcy"?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2008, 01:52:55 AM »

Quote
Is a deaf person handicapped?

Yes


If they don't think so, why do you?

I work for the government , and I have seen guys who were careless about protecting their hearing from noise damage get fired , I don't have a choice , I must wear my earplugs.

It is officially a handicap.

I expect that a parent that purposefully ruined the hearing of his child would have comitted a crime.

So if the loss of a sense is not a handicap what could the definition of "handicap " be?

How diffrent is it to assult and ruin a persons hearing , than it is to make sure that they are built without it?

These guys ought to accomplish this in the usual and leagal way  , loud music.

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2008, 03:59:18 AM »

So if the loss of a sense is not a handicap what could the definition of "handicap " be?


It's not a loss if one never had it. So again, if they don't think it is a handicap, then why do you?

Yes, I get that you think there is something ridiculous in not considering deafness a disability, but again, you have not explained why they should. They live with it everyday. It is their lifestyle. They want another child, and they want that child to also be deaf. Non-deaf parents want hearing children, which fits their lifestyle, and if they could choose to avoid having a deaf child from before birth, I'm pretty sure they would. Deafness is not a crippling or disfiguring disability and the deaf parents are not choosing this out of cruelty, so picking on the deaf parents seems to me somewhat arrogant.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2008, 04:20:59 AM »

So if the loss of a sense is not a handicap what could the definition of "handicap " be?


It's not a loss if one never had it. So again, if they don't think it is a handicap, then why do you?

Because, Prince, we are given a certain amount of bodily functions to allow us the maximum amount of ability in interacting with our enviroment.  Call it evolution, call it whatever you want, but we've been given the gift of a great many senses and sensory devices, to better function.  One can applaud those who don't wish to see their disability as a disability, and admire that they overcome such physical and emotional obstacles.  But when one is deprived of what is considered a normal bodily sense, that is a disability.  Again, cudos to those who don't think it's a disability, the loss of hearing.  It is though, and to want to impart a disabililty on a child is simply cruel

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Universe Prince

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3660
  • Of course liberty isn't safe; but it is good.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Maybe I Should Move to California
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2008, 04:51:38 AM »
So, it's a disability because you consider hearing a normal bodily sense, and normal is good while not normal is a disability. Basically, because you say so.

Perhaps they have a different idea about what constitutes "normal".
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--