sympathy for the Clinton

[Plane]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/17/INN110LINM.DTL


http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1807242,00.html


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gyt5e1R2-Sdsq3SaYFgrUNR_KWJwD90NIOC80


http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2008/05/15/clintons_candidacy_sets_women_back/




Wait wait wait, Hillary Clinton , if she is trailing, it can't be by much , she must have 48% if not 50% of the votes cast.

Why does the die seem cast now ? There is still time for a few superdeligates to change their mind.

Why does Senator Barack Obama's slim lead before the convention make him the sure winner? 

Doesn't Senator Hillary Clinton draw a lot of people into the voteing booth?

[Brassmask]

After today, Hillary can't catch Obama in pledged delegates nor (barring some kind of bizarre 100% of the vote scenario) in popular vote.

It's been over and she's been going through the motions since she barely eked out a win in Indiana.

She's stringing her support along in hopes that she can convince them to vote for Obama (I think) or worst case scenario, take over the convention with armed strongmen.

[Xavier_Onassis]

She's stringing her support along in hopes that she can convince them to vote for Obama (I think) or worst case scenario, take over the convention with armed strongmen.

================================
Armed strongmen?

Not a chance.

[Christians4LessGvt]

what if she actually ends up with more votes?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/us/politics/19cnd-clinton.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[sirs]

Not gonna happen.  Not ever.

[Brassmask]

Armed strongmen?

Not a chance.

We can only wait and see.

[Brassmask]

what if she actually ends up with more votes?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/20/us/politics/19cnd-clinton.html?_r=1&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

When you actually delve into how she arrives at that claim it becomes apparent that she and her ilk are completely full of it.

Note how she arrives at this ludicrous claim.

?The fact is we have to include Michigan and Florida ? we cannot claim that we have a nominee based on 48 states, particularly two states that are so important for us to win in the fall,? Mrs. Clinton said.

If all states with popular vote totals are counted ? which would exclude four caucus states that have not released numbers ? Mrs. Clinton would lead Mr. Obama by more than 26,000 votes out of more than 33 million cast. By other calculations, Mr. Obama is ahead in the popular vote.

A.  FL and MI will never be counted in the manner she wants.  I hate technicalities but the reality is that the Democratic Party elects delegates to go to a convention to vote in the peoples' stead.  This is not a national election but an election within a party.  FL and MI broke the rules and were warned that if they did so, they would be sanctioned.  They broke the rules anyway and they were sanctioned.  If their delegates are sat at the convention by the committee, they will be sat with the clear understanding that they will be apportioned in such a manner so as to affect ZERO influence over the outcome.  Anything else is shenanigans on the part of the Clintons.

B.  Her math is in conflict with her alleged beliefs about "counting every vote" in regards to MI and FL.  She excludes the people who voted in one state that holds caucuses and does not release the actual counts.  Wah.

C.  I will totally pissed if there comes a situation where Obama does NOT have the popular vote and then it comes down to super-delegates swinging it to him.  It will be a horrible situation for the person who is actually a good man and great candidate to have to rely on Strategy.

While it is true that I can't no longer stand the Clintons and I supported Obama because I wanted her to lose, it is now true that I respect him to no end and hope for his inevitable win.

Brass

[Christians4LessGvt]

brass placing your personal feelings aside
if Hillary does indeed have more votes
don't you think the democrats should make her the nominee?

[modestyblase]

She's stringing her support along in hopes that she can convince them to vote for Obama (I think) or worst case scenario, take over the convention with armed strongmen.

Going to the convention and making the case that she *will* be the better candidate is not, imo, a "worst case scenario". In fact, it would be the best thing for her to do. Obama will NEVER carry Florida-Clinton most likely will. If the DNC is stupid enough to give Obama the nomination, then I cannot say I have any remorse for the inevitable damage and fall-out the decision will produce.

The rules re: brokered conventions have been around for decades. Funny time to begin questioning them...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080520/pl_politico/10481;_ylt=Av566lwVRC5tLznsISJOZx5h24cA

Hillary Rodham Clinton, you've got a friend in Dirty Harry.

ADVERTISEMENT
 
Though a longtime follower of John McCain -- dating back to the Arizona senator's 2000 run against George W. Bush in the GOP primary -- Clint Eastwood thinks Clinton deserves some serious respect. And enough already with the calls for her to quit.

"Everybody's trying to talk her into folding, but it doesn't seem like the spirit of Americana," Eastwood told Politico before heading to France's Cannes Film Festival, where his period kidnapping drama "Changeling," starring Angelina Jolie, had its world premiere Tuesday.

"Put yourself in the place of [Clinton]: You've gone out there and made a thousand speeches, and you've shaken a million hands and you've been out there working your ass off," Eastwood said. "And then somebody comes up and says, 'Why don't you just drop out of it?'"

The actor/director/producer/jazz aficionado -- who had his own brush with politics as mayor of Carmel, Calif. -- said Clinton's fortunes could change: Barack Obama could trip over himself again, as he did with the controversies over his association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Obama's remarks about working-class voters clinging to their religion and guns.

"I watch Clinton and feel kind of sorry for her and wonder, 'What are all these people telling her to run away for?'" Eastwood said. "She's showing her strength by hanging in there."

[Brassmask]

brass placing your personal feelings aside
if Hillary does indeed have more votes
don't you think the democrats should make her the nominee?

Personal feelings aside, if she by some miracle and without magic math does somehow get more votes, then I would say yes, she should be the nominee.  I won't vote for her but she should be the nominee.

[sirs]

The math just doesn't work out for Hillary, especially now that Obama has a majority of the pledged delegates.  If the super delegates pull this out from under Obama after what he's accomplished, it's gonna take perhaps a minimum of 2, if not more, presidential cycles for the fractured Democrat party to repair itself, and for the African American community to ever support the party leadership again.

She should gracefully bow out.  She should actively try to repair the damage already made.  GOP is salivating that the status quo continue

[Brassmask]

The math just doesn't work out for Hillary, especially now that Obama has a majority of the pledged delegates.  If the super delegates pull this out from under Obama after what he's accomplished, it's gonna take perhaps a minimum of 2, if not more, presidential cycles for the fractured Democrat party to repair itself, and for the African American community to ever support the party leadership again.

She should gracefully bow out.  She should actively try to repair the damage already made.  GOP is salivating that the status quo continue

I concur.

[BT]

If Hillary has any chance of gaining the most delegates based on a majority of the popular vote and the judgment of the super delegates would be to back the person with the most votes , then she should stay in  until the convention decides the nominee. Withdrawing for the "good of the party" is just posturing.

If Obama wants to be the nominee he needs to close the deal.

[Brassmask]

If Obama wants to be the nominee he needs to close the deal.

I heard a bigshot at my work yesterday saying this but I have to say I don't think it is true.  This primary is much different from the last few presidential primaries we've seen where the obvious nominee emerges early enough on, gets the votes and then the primary season is declared over by the media for the most part.

It is not Obama's fault that Hillary has so many supporters.  The main reason he has succeeded in this primary as much as he has is because he has steadfastly refused to go negative.  A lot of Americans find that exceedingly admiral and attractive.  It is a rejection of Strategy in favor of Substance (which I've been hoping for ever since I started voting).  I think the only way he would be able to "close the deal" would be to go negative but that would impact him negatively.

To her supporters, Hillary is a GREAT candidate.  Her problem is that she is not inspirational to anyone.  Lots of people HATE her.  (And for good reason)  The people who support her are either people who yearn for the good ole days of the '90s before the tech bubble burst or they are blissfully unaware of her nefarious dealings and doings or they are outraged feminists who feel that a woman should be handed the nomination no matter who else is running or, most despicable, are simply racists as we saw in Kentucky who are voting for anyone but the black guy.

Going negative on her would simply send the message that Obama is just another politician who will say or do anything to win.  That's not who he is nor is that someone who his supporters would like to support.

If Hillary wants to retain any of her cache, it would behoove her to drop out.  Any other course will only result in a Democratic Party loss and potential destruction.  There will be a boatload of outrage, disdain and hurt feelings if she continues to the convention and goes nuclear.

She's like a tired, petulant child who feels that any attention is good attention.  She's not making anyone love her, she's only trying to enforce her will and get her way.  Someone should tell her it's bedtime, let her cry herself to sleep and she'll wake up in the morning feeling friendly and lovable again.

[sirs]

It is not Obama's fault that Hillary has so many supporters.  The main reason he has succeeded in this primary as much as he has is because he has steadfastly refused to go negative.  A lot of Americans find that exceedingly admiral and attractive.  It is a rejection of Strategy in favor of Substance (which I've been hoping for ever since I started voting).  I think the only way he would be able to "close the deal" would be to go negative but that would impact him negatively.

Your flaw in that thinking process Brass, is that Obama has produced nothing of substance, outside of applying the word "change" in every other sentence he utters.  He has pledged no timetable for getting out of Iraq.  His political platform is nearly identical to Hillary's.  He's neither sponsored nor carried any major legislation as a Senator.  He's done squat.  He DOES speak a good liberal game, and has more speaking Chrasima than McCain & Hillary combined.  If it ever came down to substance, it's likely the voters would look elsewhere