Author Topic: Gas prices in other countries  (Read 11771 times)

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Lanya

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Gas prices in other countries
« on: May 22, 2008, 04:00:48 PM »
[...........]

A gallon of gas costs just 12 cents in Venezuela, $2.81 in China and $3.33 in Moscow, according to Associates for International Research Inc., a consulting firm based in Cambridge, Mass. Those prices encourage citizens of those countries to drive more, shielding them from the reality of a limited global supply and inflating prices in North America and Europe, where taxes have pushed as high as $8.73 in Norway and $8.38 in the United Kingdom.

But the possibility of countries backing off subsidies is slim, as entire populations would likely object to the sudden escalation in prices, adding another dimension of instability to already fragile places. "You already have had food riots in a dozen countries," Dancy said. "You take off the subsidies to gasoline and diesel, you're adding fuel to the fire. I don't think a lot of these governments legitimately have a choice. They're really in a vise."

[........]
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-sun-gas-prices-no-letup-may18,0,6879387.story
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Universe Prince

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2008, 04:07:53 PM »
What? Subsidies artificially lower prices and skew the functioning of the market?

Sigh. Now, if we could just get people understand that about the subsidies here...
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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sirs

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2008, 05:00:21 PM »
I think this is Lanya's subtle swipe that our gas prices are simply the result of evil oil companies, vs the notion of supply & demand, combined with the overt regulations imposed on oil/gasoline by the state and federal governments

And guess who that proposed windfall profits tax is actually going to hit?  Hint, it won't be the evil oil companies
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Lanya

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2008, 05:10:22 PM »
A subtle swipe? Honestly, Sirs, I just read on a website that Russia and China paid way less at the pump than we did, so I googled up articles about it. This is the result. 
I hate the high prices and want them down, down, down.  I live in a semi-rural area and this hits people very, very hard.  Some people can't get to work at the nursing home, they don't have the money to come in.  Very bad times. It's like...constantly living in a Level 3 Snow Emergency. 
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sirs

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2008, 05:24:48 PM »
A subtle swipe? Honestly, Sirs, I just read on a website that Russia and China paid way less at the pump than we did, so I googled up articles about it. This is the result.  I hate the high prices and want them down, down, down.  I live in a semi-rural area and this hits people very, very hard.  Some people can't get to work at the nursing home, they don't have the money to come in.

Yet I'm pretty confident you'd be of the leftist mix that are railing that oil companies profits are far too obscene, that we not be allowed to drill and expand our own oil reserves off of Florida, California, or ANWR, and that nuclear power is too dangerous as well.  So, am I 1 for 3?  2 for 3?  3 for 3?. 

 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2008, 05:31:15 PM »
We should bend over and let the oil companies charge whatever they wish, of course. They should never be punished or taxed, because they are our very best buddies and would never, ever lie to us about anything.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2008, 05:35:29 PM »
We should bend over and let the oil companies charge whatever they wish, of course. They should never be punished or taxed, because they are our very best buddies and would never, ever lie to us about anything.

Do you really consider <10% profit on sales to be "charging too much"?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2008, 05:40:41 PM »
I consider them stating that they make 10% profit to be a bald faced lie, actually. Oil execs are exactly like tobacco company execs. You know they are lying when their lips are moving.



My consolation is that (a) I do not buy petroleum products and (b) I have enough money invested in natural resource funds to make up for the amount I am being diddled for biodiesel, which has gone up to $4.25 a gallon from  $2.30 a gallon "due to market forces".

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2008, 05:42:10 PM »
I consider them stating that they make 10% profit to be a bald faced lie, actually. Oil execs are exactly like tobacco company execs. You know they are lying when their lips are moving.

I don't remember you presenting any of that evidence when the profit reports were in the news.

Got any now?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2008, 06:12:51 PM »
I am pretty sure that their reports are right up there in accuracy with Big Tobacco's cancer statistics.
Go ahead and believe every damned thing they say if you wish. I don't believe them. They have every reason to lie and they know they will never get caught in a lie. Everyone connected with the business is a liar. The only true thing they say is that they are making money.

The oil industry consists of a hole in the ground with a pipe coming out of it. There are maybe two people who know what is coming out of that hole and how fast. And both of those people can be easily bribed, and always have been, and always will be.

I know that they are lying. They always have lied and they always will lie. They hire professional liars to lie for them for special occasions. They bring these special professional lying lawyers to sit next to them as they lie. They are the ones in the shinier suits, as a rule, who whisper lies in their ears prior to their passing them on to our Congressmen.

Years later, someone is near death and spills it all, and there it is on page 23. By then there are new lies and new liars have been hired.

And everyone says that past lies are no indication of future mendacity. It might get two minutes on the news, between denture adhesive and antidepressant  commercials

And so it goes.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Universe Prince

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2008, 06:15:48 PM »
So the oil industry is a gigantic conspiracy? Heh. That's funny.
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
--Hieronymus Karl Frederick Baron von Munchausen ("The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" [1988])--

sirs

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2008, 06:16:23 PM »
I've lost count of how many "congressional investigations" and committees were put forth to get to the bottom of these "egregious oil company profits" and the accusations of gouging.  At least 20, if not 30+.  NONE of them came back with any offcial conclusions that the oil companies were lying or falsely selling their product at any time.  In fact, the consistent consensus kept falling into the supply & demand scenario.  

Perhaps Xo can enlightn us with one of these official reports that concluded the contrary, that concluded how oil companies were simply fixing their prices just to make big bucks.
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2008, 06:35:43 PM »
I don't think the oil companies are in a conspiracy, but some of the CEO's at the Senate (or was it House?) hearings sure were liars.

One of them said something along the lines of: "we invest most of our profits back into research and production."

Sounds swell, don't it?

The problem with that statement is that GAAP regulations require that any such investments are designated as expenses. In other words, they would not be listed as profits (i.e. profits = net revenue - net expenses - adjustments).

So, if they've nothing to hide and everything is peaches & cream - why blatantly lie?
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_JS

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2008, 06:39:51 PM »
I think this is Lanya's subtle swipe that our gas prices are simply the result of evil oil companies, vs the notion of supply & demand, combined with the overt regulations imposed on oil/gasoline by the state and federal governments

And guess who that proposed windfall profits tax is actually going to hit?  Hint, it won't be the evil oil companies

Said by someone whose knowledge of economics is clearly lacking.

Inflation is driving the price of petroleum, not so much supply and demand Sirs. The weak dollar and this administration's inability to handle inflation through poor fiscal policy (along with a terribly inconsistent Fed Reserve) has much more to do with why you're paying high prices at the pump than some sort of lack of supply. The truth is that even peak oil theorists believe that we have not reached the peak of world oil supply - which at present is predicted around 2011 or so.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Gas prices in other countries
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2008, 07:08:08 PM »
I think this is Lanya's subtle swipe that our gas prices are simply the result of evil oil companies, vs the notion of supply & demand, combined with the overt regulations imposed on oil/gasoline by the state and federal governments.  And guess who that proposed windfall profits tax is actually going to hit?  Hint, it won't be the evil oil companies

Said by someone whose knowledge of economics is clearly lacking.  Inflation is driving the price of petroleum, not so much supply and demand Sirs.

I never claimed it was solely Supply & Demand Js, only that the prior mass of congressional investigations clearly had a consistent theme of no to price gouging and yes to supply and demand issues. 

Now currently inflation is obviously having an effect, and I never claimed otherwise.  What I have claimed is the left frequently attacks "big oil" as the main reason for increasing gas prices, when it's the same left inhibiting, when not out and out preventing, a vast # of avenues that could bring the price of oil down substantially, be it increasing our domesit oil supply, actually bulding a damn refinery, if not 2 dozen, opening up more Nuclear facilities, and lessoning the cost prohibitive regulations government imposes.  (read NOT abolish, but loosen)

ALL such avenues would counter the weak dollar and boost our own supply, thus decreasing the overall demand.  But we'll we get any support from the left on these ventures??   I'm guessing not.  so much easier to simply demonize "big oil", and push to pass windfall profits taxes, which of course gets passed onto to......you guessed it, us again, in the form of even HIGHER fuel costs.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle