Kerry Apologizes for 'A Botched Joke'

[_JS]

Among combat units, just a bare majority (about 55%) have a high school diploma only. Most of the rest have some college or a college degree.

Where did you get that figure?

The vast majority of enlisted personnel in the US Army have only a high school diploma. Also, "some college" would still indicate a high school diploma unless they consider it to include associates degrees.

[Amianthus]

Where did you get that figure?

Read a study a while back. Figure just stuck in my head.

The vast majority of enlisted personnel in the US Army have only a high school diploma.

Combat units contain officers as well as enlisted personnel.

Also, "some college" would still indicate a high school diploma unless they consider it to include associates degrees.

Since the claim I was refuting was "the greater majority of those on the battlefield are not college educated," any college education would serve even if no degree was issued.

Had he claimed "the greater majority of those on the battlefield do not have 4 year degrees" he would have been correct. That number (combat personnel with 4 year degrees or better) is around 31%, IIRC.

[sirs]

Gosh Sirs, I guess I'm just an ignorant prole.   Still, the poster these folks made is dumb. To prove their point they should have used subtler humor.

Being dumb soldiers, who obviously never studied hard enough to stay out of a war zone, probably doesn't allow time for JS-required subtlety, to make a point.  Personally, I found the soldiers' banner priceless, as is

[_JS]

Read a study a while back. Figure just stuck in my head.

I don't believe that is a correct figure Ami. The US Army has a component that deals solely with demographics. Here are the 2005 figures: Link

Combat units contain officers as well as enlisted personnel.

Yes, but by definition, commons sense, and proof in the study above there are far more enlisted personnel than officers (or Warrant Officers). I believe somewhere around 83% or more of the active duty soldiers are enlisted. 90%+ of those enlisted personnel have no college degree.

Being dumb soldiers, who obviously never studied hard enough to stay out of a war zone, probably doesn't allow time for JS-required subtlety, to make a point.  Personally, I found the soldiers' banner priceless, as is

You'll note that I did not call the soldiers "dumb" Sirs. I said the poster was dumb and not very funny. It would have had much more of an impact (and more irony) if it was more subtle or contained a very good literary allusion.

By the way Sirs, the Army has had a literacy training program since the 1960's. So it may not be a laughing matter to everyone.

[Amianthus]

I don't believe that is a correct figure Ami. The US Army has a component that deals solely with demographics. Here are the 2005 figures: Link

Not all active-duty military personnel are deployed in combat. And not only the Army is deployed in combat. The Air Force and Navy tends to attract the higher educated, and many of those personnel are also deployed in combat units. They also have a larger number of officers per unit. A four year degree, for instance, is a requirement to fly any combat air craft, in both the Air Force and Navy, and all pilots are officers, AFAIK.

Again, the initial claim was "those on the battlefield," not "those in the Army."

[_JS]

Not all active-duty military personnel are deployed in combat. And not only the Army is deployed in combat. The Air Force and Navy tends to attract the higher educated, and many of those personnel are also deployed in combat units. They also have a larger number of officers per unit. A four year degree, for instance, is a requirement to fly any combat air craft, in both the Air Force and Navy, and all pilots are officers, AFAIK.

Again, the initial claim was "those on the battlefield," not "those in the Army."

Are there currently a great number of air missions over Iraq?

You may be technically precise, but the spirit of the question is likely being completely missed. Most of the units seeing combat fire are US Army and US Marines.

[sirs]

You'll note that I did not call the soldiers "dumb" Sirs.  I said the poster was dumb and not very funny

I know, Kerry did.  And I found the banner funnier than hell.....or at least war

[Amianthus]

Are there currently a great number of air missions over Iraq?

Is Iraq the only place we're facing combat?

[_JS]

Is Iraq the only place we're facing combat?

It is the primary location where the United States military is taking casualties.

[Amianthus]

It is the primary location where the United States military is taking casualties.

Regardless, my initial comment only addressed the initial claim. If you wish to refine Larry's claim to pick nits, feel free. Doesn't make anything I've said incorrect.

[larry]

We have I believe 190,000 troops in Iraq, we have a million man military. Selective service has always exploited the general public based on class. That has not changed. I would dare anyone to do a real study of just who is on the battlefield in Iraq. That would never be permitted, because the blatant bias would show the poor and under educated by far the greater majority of battlefield soldiers.

[Amianthus]

I would dare anyone to do a real study of just who is on the battlefield in Iraq.

Been done: http://afs.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/32/3/353

[larry]

Sorry, I cannot access the site.

[The_Professor]

But, larry, the draft woud tend to negative your issue with it if it is toally random with no deferments (or jsut a few nayway). In this way, white and black, rich and poor, etc. would all serve, equally.

[Plane]

If the Military is useing educational oppurtunity as a recruiting tool (and it is).

Then it must be trying to attract people who are not yet well educated but who have the ambition to be.


My Dad entered the Navy with a 10th grade education , then learned to operate fire controll computers in the Navy.

When he got out he used the GI bill and a sports scolorship to get his degree.


I myself took some corsed while I was in the Navy , the Navy has a program for hireing Professors to ride on ships and teach , kind of a cheap way for a teacher to see the world.