Author Topic: The State of Englishness  (Read 28787 times)

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sirs

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #180 on: June 05, 2008, 04:52:59 PM »
Who determined that the American Dream meant that some should live like kings while others starve?


News Flash Js, the American Dream is all about being given the opportunity to be the BEST at what you could possibly be.  There are no restrictions to the American Dream, so long as you're not doing something illegally.  At least they're not supposed to be



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #181 on: June 05, 2008, 04:57:14 PM »
Who determined that the American Dream meant that some should live like kings while others starve?


News Flash Js, the American Dream is all about being given the opportunity to be the BEST at what you could possibly be.  There are no restrictions to the American Dream, so long as you're not doing something illegally.  At least they're not supposed to be

Interesting answer to my question...poignant too.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #182 on: June 05, 2008, 05:00:47 PM »
You're welcome
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #183 on: June 05, 2008, 05:18:45 PM »
"Classless & equal societies won't exist under this economic system......"


Why not?

Because a basic product of capitalism is class and inequality. If you're honest, and not simply prone to contradict everything I post, you'll admit that the history of capitalism is a history of extremely unequal and class-based societies.


I do feel a duty to contradict everything , am I not doing this well enough?

The classes you speak of what is the bad thing or the bad effect of them?

They are not hereditary , people move up in class constantly .

I would be frustrated if I were trapped in a caste , but I don't feel that anyone is.

You asked me a question and I answered it. Apparently you agree with my answer, judging from your questions now. So why did you ask the question if you knew the answer - that capitalism cannot produce a classless society?

Mostly because I enjoy talking with you.

Class distinction is defined differently sometimes , if all you mean is income level then I don't mind it. Lots of people rise to a level at which they are comfortable enough and decide that gaining more is not worth the work.

I do not think that cash in hand defines a persons worthiness , or determines his potential for happiness.

The American system has got some warts , but a lot of starvation isn't happening , one the benefits of capitolism is efficient production and distribution. It really works better to make food and necessaries cheap and available than to make them free but rationed.

Several times in history the goal of making people equal became overemphasized , the French Revolution is one such disaster , with the committee in charge of making everyone equal killing everyone that seemed to make this goal difficult , do you know the story of Antoine Lavoisier's death?

I think a certain amount of socialism can be tolerated , as long as the poor number more than the rich they will outvote them in a democracy and ensure a minimum of socialism is maintained. The best choice for the capitalist in this circumstance is to ensure that too few people think of themselves as poor to vote in extremes of socialism.

I 'm not sure whether Henry Ford came up with the idea or not , but he wanted a workforce that could afford to buy its own product , this strikes me as one of his better ideas.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:43:58 PM by Plane »

Plane

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #184 on: June 05, 2008, 05:23:15 PM »

Because a basic product of capitalism is class and inequality. If you're honest, and not simply prone to contradict everything I post, you'll admit that the history of capitalism is a history of extremely unequal and class-based societies.

So, show me a "classless society". Even in socialism, somebody gets the corner office, and somebody else doesn't...

If you think that a corner office is what constitutes class then you clearly have never read Marx.


Does Marx still matter?

Universe Prince

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #185 on: June 05, 2008, 05:32:20 PM »

Who determined that the American Dream meant that some should live like kings while others starve?


No one. The American Dream is about the notion that no one decides the individual's place in society except the individual. Poor can become rich. A school dropout can create something that changes the culture. No, it's not going to rid the world of poverty, but it can change what poverty means. (I recall reading about how Stalin allowed the film The Grapes of Wrath to be shown in the Soviet Union in order to show what capitalism does to people, and the Soviet citizens were impressed that even poor people in America had cars.) Yes, there is abject poverty here, and yes, we should something about it. Deciding for others how much success they should have, imo, does not accomplish helping people in poverty. Instead, we need to find new ways to help the poor participate in the American Dream, which would include getting the government out of their way, not creating a system of dependency.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 05:36:21 PM by Universe Prince »
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Religious Dick

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #186 on: June 06, 2008, 05:36:20 PM »

Who determined that the American Dream meant that some should live like kings while others starve?


The point is, the American Dream doesn't mandate anything - it is merely the assurance that birth need not equate to destiny. It's not a guarantee of anything.
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

kimba1

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Re: The State of Englishness
« Reply #187 on: June 06, 2008, 09:12:51 PM »
actually in the early days of capitalism it was quite dangerous to people.
people live by the phrase buyer beware.
things didn`t need to be safe in those days.
and poverty was a good deal more severe compared to todays standards.
note very few companies ever impose thier own safety standards.
people keep forgetting capitalism is just a system.
neither good or evil ,