Good analysis of where the Clinton campaign went wrong . . .

[Michael Tee]

 . . .  if anyone's still interested.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/184125/3635/912/526905

I don't know exactly where it went wrong for me.  Actually, initially, it was more just a liking for Obama, the way he talked just seemed more natural and sincere than what Hillary was saying.  And the "change" that he promised seemed, at the beginning, believable.  I started to feel he would be better than Hillary, more in touch with what the Democratic Party was supposed to be.  That he was change and she was same-ole-same-ole.

At some point, I got the sense that Hillary felt she was being out-flanked on her left, but she couldn't get to the left of Obama, because SHE had voted for the war and Obama was against it right from the start.  So she had to attack him from the right, and THAT was where (figuratively speaking, of course) she lost my vote.  Well, I would have already chosen him over Hillary, but with a lot of love and respect for the Hilster at that point, but once she began attacking Obama from the right, she became Republican Hillary, one of THEM.  That's when I wrote her off.

[Plane]

. . .  if anyone's still interested.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/184125/3635/912/526905

I don't know exactly where it went wrong for me.  Actually, initially, it was more just a liking for Obama, the way he talked just seemed more natural and sincere than what Hillary was saying.  And the "change" that he promised seemed, at the beginning, believable.  I started to feel he would be better than Hillary, more in touch with what the Democratic Party was supposed to be.  That he was change and she was same-ole-same-ole.

At some point, I got the sense that Hillary felt she was being out-flanked on her left, but she couldn't get to the left of Obama, because SHE had voted for the war and Obama was against it right from the start.  So she had to attack him from the right, and THAT was where (figuratively speaking, of course) she lost my vote.  Well, I would have already chosen him over Hillary, but with a lot of love and respect for the Hilster at that point, but once she began attacking Obama from the right, she became Republican Hillary, one of THEM.  That's when I wrote her off.

Oh no !

She is not one of us!

You have to keep her , even if you dont want her to be president , you cant simply foist her off on our party .

[fatman]

You have to keep her , even if you dont want her to be president , you cant simply foist her off on our party .

Why not?  Several conservative commentators urged their listeners to vote for her in the primaries, CU4 did.  Be careful of what you wish for!

[Michael Tee]

If you won't take her, plane, she and Lieberman can start their own third party, Democrats Against Democrats.  If they get their act together, they can launch by Fathers' Day.

[BT]

The Clinton Campaign went wrong when Bill inserted himself into the campaign.

[Michael Tee]

But as long as he kept his zipper up, he was always an asset to any campaign.  Why was he such a loser in this one?  I've seen a couple of articles suggesting he hates to play second fiddle and was deliberately (but maybe subconsciously) sabotaging Hillary.

[Lanya]

But as long as he kept his zipper up, he was always an asset to any campaign.  Why was he such a loser in this one?  I've seen a couple of articles suggesting he hates to play second fiddle and was deliberately (but maybe subconsciously) sabotaging Hillary.

I think his surgery took quite a toll on him.  I noticed a difference, anyway.

[Michael Tee]

I'd hate to see this thing blamed on Bill.  He didn't exactly cover himself with glory, but for me at least, the campaign really was about Hillary.  The more I saw of her tactics, the more I felt I was getting an involuntary display of her core values, and I didn't like them.  In fact, at the end, I couldn't see much difference between hers and George W. Bush's.  And while I wasn't pissed off at any of Obama's supporters (Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn were always heroes to me, and as for the Rev. Jeremiah Wright - - get real, folks, what do you expect after four hundred years of unremitting oppression, unconditional love??  The man is angry, get it?  Just like his namesake, the original Jeremiah.) I was getting extremely pissed off at the unrestrained, immoral and unethical no-holds-barred, the Party be damned, partisan warfare being waged by some of her supporters.  STILL continuing even yesterday if you listen to Harold Ickes and others.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It seems to me that Hillary is a victim of the feeling by Democrats that the entire government system sucks, from one end to the other. Obama is the maximum change that they are offered, so that's what they are going for. Juniorbush has been a very polarizing influence from the very beginning--when his asshole supporters were outside the VP mansion demanding that he "leave Dick Cheney's house" before his term was up.

The Iraq War, the increasing inequality between rich and poor, the naming of Alito and Roberts to the Court, have all been major polorizing factors.

[Michael Tee]

<<Juniorbush has been a very polarizing influence from the very beginning--when his asshole supporters were outside the VP mansion demanding that he "leave Dick Cheney's house" before his term was up.>>

I'm trying to figure this one out.  It would be very funny if anti-government protestors gathered outside the White House and demanded that Bush leave Dick Cheney's house.  That would be a variation of the "sock puppet" allegation.  But I don't get it, that BUSH'S asshole supporters gather outside the VP mansion (unless that's a jocular reference to the White House under Bush, in which case Bush's own supporters are demeaning him?) . . .

What am I not getting?  Or is there an error in the text?

[BT]

In a democratic primary Bush's polarizing abilities ae not in the equation.

I think when Bill inserted himself into the campaign, people remembered what a polarizing figure he was. They also realized that he came with Hillary if she was elected. They also knew that GOP partisans would love a Clinton Whitehouse because they wouldn't need to behave during the standard six month honeymoon most newly elected get and they could start payback for 6 years of Bush Bashing immediately. Voters, especially young ones had already endured 16 years of partisan bickering and they aren't so anxious for another 4 or 8.

Obama didn't bring that kind of baggage. Nor that brand of politicking.

[Xavier_Onassis]

<<Juniorbush has been a very polarizing influence from the very beginning--when his asshole supporters were outside the VP mansion demanding that he "leave Dick Cheney's house" before his term was up.>>
=================================================================
Sorry, in 2000, when Gore was VP, Republicans appeared outside the VP mansion (that is, VP Gore's residence at the time) demanding that Gore leave "Dick Cheney's" house. This was before Clinton and Gore's term was up, and before the Supreme Court decided that Juniorbush would be president.


I think it is pretty obvious that Juniorbush has polorized Democrats within the Democratic Party.

[BT]

I think it is pretty obvious that Juniorbush has polorized Democrats within the Democratic Party.

And the effect of that polarization is?

Who benefits?

[fatman]

And the effect of that polarization is?

An increasing inability to garner bi-partisan support for legislation, and an increase in proposals that are more extreme than moderate.

Who benefits?

Ultimately?  I would say no one.  In the short term however, polarization/extremism is useful to validate the fringes of a political philosophy, and galvanize their supporters for elections, especially in an election year like this one.  There is little effort at compromise by the fringe, who try to make their viewpoint the dominant one.

[sirs]

And the effect of that polarization is?

An increasing inability to garner bi-partisan support for legislation, and an increase in proposals that are more extreme than moderate.

Which largely began before he even took the oath of office, with cries of stolen election.  Face it Fat, Bush HAD a reputation of working with Dems, and Conservatives knew before hand he was no real Reagan conservative, and often pulled Democrat-lite/like executive decisions, but the DC democrats had little to no intention of working with him on anything, outside of hard line liberal causes, such as Education, that he also endorsed