what not to do when a friend is arrested

[Michael Tee]

Maybe there's just too much God-damned violence in the whole country.  By the cops, who don't have any brakes on their raiding tactics and by the citizens who have minimal brakes on gun ownership.  This is just a recipe for tragedy on both sides of the line.

[Plane]

Maybe there's just too much God-damned violence in the whole country.  By the cops, who don't have any brakes on their raiding tactics and by the citizens who have minimal brakes on gun ownership.  This is just a recipe for tragedy on both sides of the line.

What makes you complain about the citizens?


I think the Police ought to use raiding tactics with circumspection , only when it is the best choice.

When they are unsure of the correct address , milder actions ought to be tried first.

[Amianthus]

That I can wholeheartedly concur with.  But to you prior point ami, I've heard that such raids have a simultaneous "Police!!" with the knocking down of the door.  I don't have a problem with that either.   But you've heard that they don't even announce police?

They do it simultaneous with the bursting of the door. If you're inside, you might not hear the announcement over the sound of the smashing of the door. Guess it depends on how loud the guy yelling "Police" is...

[Xavier_Onassis]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the police do not actually have the right to bust a door down.
At least, they should have enough previous surveillance to know that something illegal is happening.

In the event that a cop is shot after he busts down the door of an innocent person, and that person shoots the officer or shoots at the officer, the case should be tried just as it would if some other uninvited civilian had busted down the door.

Part of this is due to inadequate gun control, of course, if there were adequate gun laws, everyone would not have a gun, and the cops would not always assume that they would be met by people with guns.

When the cops screw up like this, the individual should ALWAys sue and always get paid a bundle. just to underline how important it is that cops not go around busting doors down randomly.

[Universe Prince]

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the police do not actually have the right to bust a door down.
At least, they should have enough previous surveillance to know that something illegal is happening.

Not how it works. Police use informants. Usually informants who are themselves criminals who stay out of trouble or get deals for telling police what they want to hear.

In the event that a cop is shot after he busts down the door of an innocent person, and that person shoots the officer or shoots at the officer, the case should be tried just as it would if some other uninvited civilian had busted down the door.

Also not how it works. Police will of course always claim they announced themselves So if someone attempts self-defense, the police start with the assumption the person knew they were police and tried to shoot them anyway. The court tends to believe the police more than the citizen.

When the cops screw up like this, the individual should ALWAys sue and always get paid a bundle. just to underline how important it is that cops not go around busting doors down randomly.

You're assuming the cops accept liability and that the person whose door they busted down hasn't ended up in jail.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I am assuming that a person who is sitting at home doing nothing illegal has a right not to be interrupted by cops or anyone else destroying their property and pointing dangerous weapons at them.

If I am on that jury and the cops are the sort that I have experience with here in Miami, I am not likely to automatically side with them, either.

[Plane]

In the USA a door that can effectively withstand a battering in  , is probly the surest sign that the house if a crack house.

Most of our exterior doors are pretty easy to break .

[Xavier_Onassis]

Nonetheless, regardless of how fragile my front door might be, I would consider attempts to bust it down to be hostile acts against my property and person.

[kimba1]

just realized

the police are expecting houses they break into not to have armed responses???
it calling out their police is a moot point isn`t it??

[Michael Tee]

<<What makes you complain about the citizens?>>

I think of cases like that homeowner in New Orleans who shot and killed a Japanese student visitor trick-or-treating on Haloween.  Or that fucking moron in Michigan who left a loaded gun in the oven, which then fired when the oven heated up, killing a child.  I'm all for self-defence, but I'll bet that if anyone kept stats on gun homicides in America, the slaughter of innocent victims would dwarf the cases of homicide due to armed legitimate self-defence.


<<I think the Police ought to use raiding tactics with circumspection , only when it is the best choice.>>

Well first they need a warrant, don't they?  A judge has got to review affidavit evidence showing why the need to enter, and I guess in a no-knock warrant, there'd have to be a shitload of affidavit evidence justifying the need.

<<When they are unsure of the correct address , milder actions ought to be tried first.>>

I don't know the state of the law in the U.S. or even Canada on this, but I'd imagine if they couldn't swear to the correct address, they would not get the warrant.  They gotta do a LITTLE homework before the judicial system will authorize them to kick down someone's door.  I'm sure there are abuses of the system, false affidavits, complaisant judges, but the remedies exist.  No system is perfect.  But the police actions are subject to judicial oversight before and after.  The actions of some nut with a gun are subject to judicial oversight only after the fact.

[Amianthus]

I'm all for self-defence, but I'll bet that if anyone kept stats on gun homicides in America, the slaughter of innocent victims would dwarf the cases of homicide due to armed legitimate self-defence.

They do keep stats.

And the stats show that your statement is wrong.

[sirs]

<<What makes you complain about the citizens?>>

I'm all for self-defence, but I'll bet that if anyone kept stats on gun homicides in America, the slaughter of innocent victims would dwarf the cases of homicide due to armed legitimate self-defence.

Last time I checked, the # of crimes that were prevented, including potential rapes, home invasions, and murder attempts, when a gun was either used or simply brandished FAR outnumbered those killed accidentally or via suicide by way of the firearm.  Unfortunately, there's no law against stupidity

[Universe Prince]

I am assuming that a person who is sitting at home doing nothing illegal has a right not to be interrupted by cops or anyone else destroying their property and pointing dangerous weapons at them.

That should be the case, imo. Unfortunately, the police generally see it differently.

[Xavier_Onassis]

That should be the case, imo. Unfortunately, the police generally see it differently.
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When this is the case, we should fire their sorry asses and replace them.

[Michael Tee]

<<They do keep stats.

<<And the stats show that your statement is wrong.>>

Who are "they?"  The NRA?