Author Topic: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!  (Read 10467 times)

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Amianthus

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2008, 12:59:28 PM »
I do not, however, believe that a totally free market makes for a satisfactory society for a majority, or even a sizable minority of any population, as it has not done this to date, anywhere.

Where has a totally free market been tried?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2008, 05:10:02 PM »

Where has a totally free market been tried?


I would guess under the rule of Attila the Hun.

You could also ask when has pure Communism been tried?
When has pure anarchy been tried?

No one will ever manage to say this to everyone's agreement.
Someone will always want to argue about the "purity".

You must know this.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2008, 06:52:36 PM »
I would guess under the rule of Attila the Hun.

Not likely. Attila left original governments in place when he conquered an area, provided they paid a tribute. The original governments all involved themselves in the market to one degree or another (usually pretty heavily at that time).

You could also ask when has pure Communism been tried?
When has pure anarchy been tried?

One could, however I did not mention either of these; you did mention a "totally free market" and stated that it does not make a "satisfactory society" for anyone. I just wondered how you "knew" this.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2008, 10:29:19 PM »
 Is a free market a natural phenominon?

Something that often happens is for one of the more successfull compeditors to attempt to supress the other compeditors .Many of the things that were done to make Standard Oil a big success in 1910 have since become illeagal because they forced a derth of competition. The role of government in a free market is in part to prevent "trust" building and monopoly establishment , preserveing the competition and the benefits of competition for the public by preventing the natural evolution of a totally unmanaged free market twards the dominance of a few giants.

Amianthus

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2008, 08:39:39 AM »
Many of the things that were done to make Standard Oil a big success in 1910 have since become illeagal because they forced a derth of competition.

Standard Oil was operating in a regulated environment already. Not everyone could get into the various businesses, so competition was already stifled by the government. For example, many of Rockefeller's advantages came from the railroad businesses that he controlled - railroads were heavily regulated, and therefore not everyone could compete in that segment against him.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2008, 09:09:54 AM »
Is a free market a natural phenominon?

================================
Certainly not in the sense that a tree is a natural phenomenon, or wind, sunlight or the tides are natural phenomena.

Nature does not produce a free market. If it did, there would have been many of them by now--just as there are many trees, lots of sunlight and wind and rain and such.

The idea that somehow we are disrupting God's or Nature's plan by interfering in the way that goods or services are disbursed or recompensed is therefore silly. People will produce, mine, manufacture and distribute their goods and services in whatever way seems most beneficial to themselves given the society in which they live. This will vary, because human societies vary.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2008, 09:13:48 AM »
Nature does not produce a free market. If it did, there would have been many of them by now--just as there are many trees, lots of sunlight and wind and rain and such.

Funny, then, how many animals perform trades in nature.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2008, 09:50:59 AM »
Funny, then, how many animals perform trades in nature.

================================================
I suppose that you are going to claim that suckerfish, dung beetles and birds that eat bugs off off rhinos are somehow God's First Capitalists.

The world's richest packrat would only be worthy of an article if he collected things humans might regard as valuable: shiny buttons, beer poptabs, wedding rings or coins. A packrat far from humans with a forty pound collection of bone fragments, seedpods and shiny pebbles would not even make it into the National Geographic except as a has-been.

Economics is a social science in the same way psychology is a social science. This is largely because we do not understand its many complications.

Perhaps someday, we can manipulate genes so that no one ever suffers from dyslexia, mongolism, autism and such.

Perhaps someday we can eliminate greed, obsessive competitiveness, aggression and other antisocial behaviors as well. We could cause people to be more compassionate and altruistic by fiddling with their genes. 

Locking up psychopaths for life is in the long run less productive to all concerned, so eventually some societies will seek to prevent psychopaths through genetics.

Putting autistic children in mainstream classes or locking them up forever is more like witch doctoring than education. Putting psychopaths in jail is the same sort of thing.

To the extent that we can cure mental disease through genetic manipulation, is is also likely that the key to a more satisfactory economic system could be developed in the same way.

Whether we do this seems dependent on how long it takes before an errant comet or asteroid takes us all out.


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Amianthus

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2008, 10:24:29 AM »
I suppose that you are going to claim that suckerfish, dung beetles and birds that eat bugs off off rhinos are somehow God's First Capitalists.

I was thinking more along the lines of primates that trade food for grooming or canines that trade food for sex.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Rich

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2008, 08:29:21 PM »
>>I suggest that when one is rebuked by the seldom-seen chickencounter, one should consider a change in one's rhetoric.<<

She only  rebukes me because she loves me. She never says anything to you because you're a disgusting coward with shit for brains.

I don't know. I suppose it must be the flare with which I return insults that gets all this attention. A simple, "dumbshit" isn't noticed I guess. Or this is also ignore:

"YOu are an imbecile.
A hooting, barking mad imbecile.


No long winded holier than thou sermon is forth coming for that one. But remember folks, you can all kiss my ass. especially you plane.

Not you Chicky. Message received. However, but I'm going to have to ignore it until such time as you feel the need to "rebuke" one of these anti-American terrorist loving sumbags once in a while.

Love you anyway.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 08:34:56 PM by Rich »

chickencounter

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2008, 12:02:59 AM »
Fair enough, Rich.  What if I just scold the Bush apologists?   ;D

Rich

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2008, 08:42:06 PM »
>>Fair enough, Rich.  What if I just scold the Bush apologists?<<

Let me know when you find one.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2008, 07:40:52 AM »
>>Fair enough, Rich.  What if I just scold the Bush apologists?<<

Let me know when you find one.

=================================
I would say that anyone who claims that invading Iraq was a good idea, even though the WMD's did not exist is a Bush apologist.

There could be one hiding in your mirror, Richie.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Rich

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2008, 03:17:28 PM »
Says the delusional socialist.

 ::)

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Nine Bucks a Barrel in One Day!!!
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2008, 05:37:07 PM »
Says the delusional socialist.


Is it delusional to claim that you are a fan of Juniorbush? You appear to worship him and all NeoCons.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."