Author Topic: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll  (Read 883 times)

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Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll

STEPHEN COLLINS, Political Editor

Fri, Jun 06, 2008

THE LISBON Treaty could face a shock rejection with the No side now in the lead, according to the findings of the latest Irish Times/TNS mrbi poll.

It will take an unprecedented swing in the last week of the campaign for the treaty to be carried.

The poll shows the number of people intending to vote No has almost doubled to 35 per cent (up 17 points) since the last poll three weeks ago, while the number of the Yes side has declined to 30 per cent (down 5 points).

The number of undecided voters is still a significant 28 per cent (down 12 points) while 7 per cent won't vote.

The massive increase by the No vote since the last poll has mainly come through gains among undecided voters but, even more ominously for the Yes side, it has lost some support to the No camp.

While the final outcome is still in the hands of undecided voters, the clear momentum is now with the No campaign and it will take a dramatic shift in public attitudes over the next few days for the Yes side to win.

The swing to the No camp has not been prompted by domestic considerations, with just 5 per cent of those opposed to the treaty saying they are influenced by a desire to protest against the Government.

The reason most often cited by No voters is that they don't know what they are voting for or they don't understand the treaty - with 30 per cent of No voters listing this as the main reason for their decision.

The poll was conducted last Tuesday and Wednesday among a representative sample of 1,000 voters in face-to-face interviews at 100 sampling points in all 43 constituencies.

It was taken in the middle of the controversy over the World Trade Organisation talks.

That issue came to a head on Tuesday afternoon with the announcement by the Irish Farmers Association that it would support a Yes vote following the declaration by the Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, that he would use the veto to block any deal unacceptable to Ireland if the issue was put to a vote.

The poll showed that farmers are opposed to the treaty by 34 per cent to 31 per cent. The No majority among working-class C2DE voters is much bigger, with Labour voters shifting in large numbers from the Yes side.

It indicates that opposition to the treaty expressed by some trade unionists is having an impact.

In class terms, the Yes campaign is only ahead among better-off ABC1 voters.

Fianna F?il voters continue to back the treaty but even in that category the No campaign has made massive strides in the past three weeks with a gain of 15 points to 25 per cent, while the proportion of Yes voters has fallen by five points to 42 per cent.

A clear majority of Fine Gael voters are now against the treaty - by 40 per cent to 30 per cent.

Among Labour voters there has been a massive turnaround with the No side almost doubling its support to 47 per cent with 30 per cent of party supporters in favour.

Ironically, given the party's previous stance on the EU, strong support for the treaty comes from Green Party supporters.

Sinn F?in voters are overwhelming in the No side, in line with their party's position.

The poll reveals the persistence of a significant difference in the attitudes of men and women to the treaty with women less likely to be in favour, although the biggest proportion of women are still in the undecided camp.

Across the age groups, older people are more positively disposed towards voting Yes but only among the over-50s was there a majority for the treaty. The highest proportion of No voters came from the 35 to 49 age group.

In regional terms the No lead is biggest in Munster, it was narrow in Dublin and the two sides are evenly matched in the rest of Leinster and Connacht-Ulster.

When asked for the main reasons why they had decided to vote No, not knowing what the treaty was about came first, followed by a wish to keep Ireland's power and identity.

The preservation of neutrality came next.

Those voting Yes cited keeping Ireland closely involved in the EU as their top reason followed by enabling the EU to work more effectively. Concerns about the country's economic future came next.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0606/1212696236403.html
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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2008, 05:45:20 PM »
I confess I have not followed this closely. So what does rejection of this treaty mean to the E.U.? And what would acceptance mean?
Your reality, sir, is lies and balderdash and I'm delighted to say that I have no grasp of it whatsoever.
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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2008, 06:01:03 PM »
I confess I have not followed this closely. So what does rejection of this treaty mean to the E.U.? And what would acceptance mean?

In practical terms, it means nothing, given that the European parliament has already voted to ignore the results of the referendum.

It's merely another example showing that when the people of Europe actually get to vote on it, they resent having their countries being turned into mere administrative regions in a European super-state.
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 06:24:52 PM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw7XwexR2ec[/youtube]
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2008, 04:52:48 AM »
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JJlI9swbsA[/youtube]
I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke

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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2008, 07:46:55 AM »
Actually, I was reading up on this. If Ireland votes "no" then it cannot go into force. This treaty requires ratification by all member states to go into effect, and it turns out the Ireland is the only member state that requires a referendum on this type of treaty.

In reality, all this does is reorganize the government of the EU a bit. It's not really anything major. There are some changes to the voting rules, establishing a Foreign Affairs branch, etc. Biggest change is the requirement for member states to abide by the human rights provisions (and even that provision exempts the UK and Poland).
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

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Re: Lisbon Treaty faces rejection as No vote doubles in latest poll
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2008, 12:44:57 PM »
Telegraph - Print Version
Q&A: EU treaty
Last updated: 2:33 AM BST 17/10/2007

What is the European Reform Treaty?

The treaty started life as the European constitution, which was rejected in 2005 by voters in France and the Netherlands. It was revived earlier this year and presented to EU leaders in Brussels in July by the Portuguese presidency as a series of amendments to the existing Treaty on the European Union (Maastricht) and the Treaty Establishing the European Community (Rome).

What will it do?

Among its most controversial proposals are the creation of a European President, who will serve a two-and-a-half-year term, and the introduction of majority voting, which will allow votes to be carried on a 55 per cent majority as long as those votes represent 65 per cent of the European population. Members of the European parliament will also get greater powers but the treaty proposes cutting the size of the European Commission, with only two thirds of countries supplying a commissioner on a rota basis.

How does it differ from the original constitution?

Unlike the constitution, the treaty contains no references to European flags or anthems, which proved so unpopular with voters. The European motto - "United in Diversity" - is also left out of the treaty, but motto, flag and anthem will all remain in existence. Instead of a European foreign minister, as proposed in the original constitution, there will be a High Representative of the Union for foreign affairs and security policy. The treaty has also dropped any mention of European laws, referring instead to regulations.

Is it just the constitution under a new name?

The official line from the British Foreign Office is that the new treaty has "no constitutional characteristics". But last week the Labour-led European Scrutiny Committee concluded that only two of the 440 provisions in the treaty differed from the original constitution - its name and the flag and anthem proposals. Opponents say that, like the constitution, the treaty removes too much sovereignty from member states.

What happens next?

Representatives from the 27 member states are due to meet in Lisbon this week to agree a final form of words, with the formal signing off expected to be completed at a summit of European leaders in Brussels in December. After that, each country must ratify the treaty, which would come into force in 2009. After the debacle over the constitution, most countries have chosen to leave ratification up to members of their parliaments, who are expected to back the deal. But Ireland plans to hold a referendum, the Danes want one too and so do quite a few Dutch, who voted against the original deal. The Dutch government is holding out against a vote, but at a cost to its electoral chances. The British Government has rejected calls for a referendum despite promising one on the constitution, probably with an eye on opinion polls suggesting a large majority is against it.

What can go wrong?

The problem for the treaty's backers is that all decisions have to be unanimous. The Poles are widely regarded as most likely to cause problems at this week's summit, threatening to block the treaty unless it includes an agreement - known as the Ionnina Compromise - to allow countries to defer unpalatable decisions that have been agreed by a narrow majority. With many Poles out of step with the rest of Europe on issues such as the death penalty and abortion, and Poland in the final stages of an election campaign, the Polish government negotiators may look to strike a hard bargain to impress their voters back home. Britain has threatened to block a deal unless its concerns over issues of sovereignty - known as red lines - are taken into account. But the most obscure objection comes from Bulgaria, which could wreck the treaty over an argument about the spelling of Euro. The Bulgarians insist it should be Evro.

What are Britain's "red lines"?

The Government has insisted it will not sign up to any deal that does not give Britain control over issues that it regards as fundamental to its sovereignty. Those areas include justice and home affairs, social security, tax, foreign policy and defence. Britain has also expressed concerns that the European Charter of Fundamental Rights - which sets out about 50 rights including freedom of speech and religion - could be used to alter British employment law and has insisted that it be excluded from the treaty.

Why should anyone be concerned?

British voters were promised a referendum on the introduction of a European constitution in the last Labour Party manifesto and whatever the treaty's supporters say, there is little doubt that it is simply the original document in a very thin disguise.

Critics of the original constitution and the new treaty argue that both would inevitably lead to a loss of national sovereignty, despite assurances to the contrary. That fear is not restricted to Britain: concerns have also been expressed in other member states.

Gordon Brown has offered assurances that Britain has negotiated opt-outs from a range of European policies - what he refers to as "the emergency brake".

But there is a body of evidence to suggest that the treaty is worded in such a way that Britain may find that it is unable to pull that brake when it needs to.

The most obvious area for concern is the erosion of the voting power of individual members. Under the proposed system of majority voting, critics claim Britain would lose its veto over 61 policy issues. The European Commission president, Jos? Barroso, has admitted that states will have to share sovereignty.

But there are also suggestions that exceptions secured during this week's negotiations could be negated by future legal challenges. Lawyers have argued that even if the Charter of Fundamental Rights is omitted from the treaty, it could still be used at the European Court of Justice to challenge British law on issues such as working practices.

A report by the Commons European scrutiny committee, which examined the treaty, warned that Britain might face a challenge to its opt-out from the European working time directive, restricting workers to a 48-hour week and removing the opportunity to earn more through overtime.

The scrutiny committee also wrote to David Miliband, the Foreign Secretary, last week, questioning the effectiveness of the safeguards supposed to protect Britain from being over-ruled on its red line issues. In particular, it warned that the latest draft of the treaty threatened Britain's opt-out from EU policy on security and justice.

Those who have studied the expansionist tendencies of Europe's bureaucracy will worry that Britain may be putting its name to a treaty this week only to discover when it is too late that it has in effect signed up to a constitution that robs it of large areas of its sovereignty.
Story from Telegraph News:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1566096/QandampA-EU-treaty.html
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I speak of civil, social man under law, and no other.
-Sir Edmund Burke