Inside The Numbers

[Amianthus]

The net increase of acts of terrorism jumped exponentially when Juniorbush invaded Iraq, whatever you wish to quibble.

Care to provide your evidence?

Or is this another case of "believe me, 'cause I'm just smarter than you are"?

[Plane]

The net increase of acts of terrorism jumped exponentially when Juniorbush invaded Iraq, whatever you wish to quibble.

Quibble?
I challenge it outright.

Haveing most of the acts of Al Queda move to Iraq (where according to some they were not present earlyer) shows the value of winning in Iraq to Al Queda , and thus to us.

[sirs]

And last time I checked not only were U.S. military deaths the lowest since the start of the war
- the support for Usma has dropped
- the homicide of bombers by Muslims in general has dropped
- significant decrease in overall global islamic terrorist attacks
- significant decrease in Suuni support of AlQueada

But hey, those facts don't mean anything right?  Lull before the storm, right?

[Xavier_Onassis]

And last time I checked not only were U.S. military deaths the lowest since the start of the war
- the support for Usma has dropped
- the homicide of bombers by Muslims in general has dropped
- significant decrease in overall global islamic terrorist attacks
- significant decrease in Suuni support of AlQueada

But hey, those facts don't mean anything right?  Lull before the storm, right?

======================================================
The comparison was between the total acts of terrorism BEFORE THE STUPID USELESS WAR EVER started and since the aforementioned war was started.

We have lost over 3,000 American troops as a result of this war, with many more than that maimed, lame, armless, legless, insane, blind and otherwise impaired. millions of Iraqis have been fporced from their homes as a result, and the number of militant Muslims has increased greatly. Not one 9-11 hijacker was an Iraqi, not one.

So, no, your stupid "facts" are meaningless to the argument that Juniorbush lied to get approval to start a disastrous war that has caused more problems than it could ever solve.
that did not need to be fought at great cost to everyone concerned.

[Michael Tee]

<<But hey, those facts don't mean anything right?  Lull before the storm, right?>>

Nah.  Impossible.  How would those dumb rag-head schmucks ever learn about the Tet Offensive?

[Xavier_Onassis]

See, Tee, the Tet Offensive was a tremendous VICTORY for the US, according to the right wing. This is perhaps because they continue to believe that the war could actually be won militarily, which, barring nukes, was just not so.

My guess is that if JFK had just ended Vietnam in the early 1960's, Vietnam would have been unified as it is today, probably with a less hard line government, and they would still be competing with the Chinese to produce footwear in factories that pay pennies per hour.

Only there would be many fewer dead, maimed Vietnamese and Americans alike. Chances are Pol Pot would never have taken over Cambodia, either.

Rightwingers are like the guy who brings a dog into your house and when the dog craps on your rug, he pulls out the dog's pedigree, and accuses you of poor housekeeping if you do not clean up the mess immediately.

[sirs]

And last time I checked not only were U.S. military deaths the lowest since the start of the war
- the support for Usma has dropped
- the homicide of bombers by Muslims in general has dropped
- significant decrease in overall global islamic terrorist attacks
- significant decrease in Suuni support of AlQueada

But hey, those facts don't mean anything right?  Lull before the storm, right?

======================================================
The comparison was between the total acts of terrorism BEFORE THE STUPID USELESS WAR EVER started and since the aforementioned war was started.

We have lost over 3,000 American troops as a result of this war, with many more than that maimed, lame, armless, legless, insane, blind and otherwise impaired. millions of Iraqis have been fporced from their homes as a result, and the number of militant Muslims has increased greatly.

And we lost exponentially more during WWII.  But hey, Tee's obviously hoping AlQueada gets their 2nd wind....soon.  So many Americans to kill

[Michael Tee]

<<But hey, Tee's obviously hoping AlQueada gets their 2nd wind....soon.  So many Americans to kill>>

Right, Tee's really got his head screwed on backwards.  Rooting for the Resistance forces instead of the armed invaders who come thousands of miles armed to the teeth to kill hundreds of thousands of poor Arabs whose only crime was to be born over an oil well.  Wow!  When is he going to get it through his thick, perverted skull that it's noble and heroic to trash international law, massacre people for oil and bring them "freedoms" which they never actually asked for to turn their country into a giant permanent U.S. military base and do all things the American way.

Amazing.  Absolutely amazing.

Well, yeah, I hope and pray and believe that the Arabs really are cooking up a massive Tet Offensive that will finally put the lie forever to the bullshit "Light at the End of the Tunnel" crap we've been hearing.  I must say it sounds totally surrealistic to hear criminals who arrogantly claim to speak for an entire nation, as if their crimes are everyone's crimes,  boasting that they are finally beginning to beat their hapless victims into the ground, encountering less and less armed resistance and soon will in fact have successfully completed their massive act of unprovoked aggression.  It's exactly like having to listen to Hitler broadcasting night and day that the various European Resistance groups are finally on the run.

Well, here's hoping for a gigantic comeuppance in October.

[Michael Tee]

<<See, Tee, the Tet Offensive was a tremendous VICTORY for the US, according to the right wing.>>

Yeah, I've seen that argument before.  Even here in this forum.  It's absolutely hilarious.  The best version of it was given in David Halberstam's book, The Best and the Brightest.  LBJ's top generals - - the same guys who had been seeing the "light at the end of the tunnel" for months and years - - were gathered around to "brief" him on the "real significance" of Tet - - HUGE enemy losses, this was the end of the road for them, they were really FUBAR this time.  Well, we've all heard this before.  But this time, LBJ was being advised by Arthur Goldberg, whom he later nominated unsuccessfully to the Supreme Court.

First Goldberg gets the generals to give their estimates of total enemy troop strength.  Then later he gets them  to quantify the enemy dead in the Tet Offensive.  Astronomical numbers, but Goldberg doesn't comment.  Then, later still, he asks them innocently, what's their ratio of wounded to dead?  And one of the generals says something like, "Well, we generally use a ratio of [say] three to one."  Then Goldberg does a little scribbling on a pad, looks up and announces, "Well, gentlemen, it looks like the enemy has no effective troops left in the field."  The way Halberstam describle it, it was truly hilarious.  These overfed, overpaid morons were totally speechless.  All of their BS was exposed for exactly what it was, and they were just totally busted.  An incredible moment.

[BT]

Well, here's hoping for a gigantic comeuppance in October.

That would tilt the election to McCain.

[Plane]

<<See, Tee, the Tet Offensive was a tremendous VICTORY for the US, according to the right wing.>>

Yeah, I've seen that argument before.  Even here in this forum.  It's absolutely hilarious.  The best version of it was given in David Halberstam's book, The Best and the Brightest. 

The version in General Giap's book is interesting too, he says he nearly gave up after the drubbing and dissapointment, but news from stateside saved his hope.

If Al Queda manages finally to strike us in a big way again , will this help the doves or the hawks?

[sirs]

The version in General Giap's book is interesting too, he says he nearly gave up after the drubbing and dissapointment, but news from stateside saved his hope.

Precisely.  Thanks to the anti-war movement, especially here in the states, it gave the enemy new momentum & drive, prolonging the war and death that much more.  Good job, guys

[Xavier_Onassis]

Perhaps General Giap just wanted to sell books.

The US had no reason to be in Vietnam. The governments of S. Vietnam were corrupt to the core, all of them, and there was nothing to be gained by turning South Vietnam into a tropical South Korea.

50,000 Americans and god knows how many Vietnamese died in that war, all of them for nothing other than some stupid politicians' egoes.

[Plane]

Perhaps General Giap just wanted to sell books.

The US had no reason to be in Vietnam. The governments of S. Vietnam were corrupt to the core, all of them, and there was nothing to be gained by turning South Vietnam into a tropical South Korea.

50,000 Americans and god knows how many Vietnamese died in that war, all of them for nothing other than some stupid politicians' egoes.

Communism had to be resisted, what a terrible world we would live in if there had been less resistance to Communism.
Of the countrys still Communist Cuba is one of the nicest , and even there there is no problem with excess immagration.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Communism had to be resisted, what a terrible world we would live in if there had been less resistance to Communism.
============================

No, it did not need to be resisted by the US. Resistance was futile, and caused Pol Pot to come to power in Cambodia.
 
By 1966 or so it was obvious that the South Vietnamese people as a group did not believe that the corrupt anti-Communist government was worth defending. That is when the US should have cut its losses and got the Hell out, because if the locals are not with you in their own civil war, you are going to lose. That is what happened. 50,000 Americans died totally in vain, because LBJ and Nixon didn't want to lose. But they lost anyway.

It is possible for governments to be more terrible than Communists can make it. Presently we have Myanmar and Zimbabwe, Turkmenistan and Somalia, all places where people are far worse off than in China or Cuba.

The US does nothing to make getting rid of these governments. The US is losing in Afghanistan. The Taliban was almost defeated, and now they are back.