Supreme Court rules terrorist suspects have right to civilian courts

[Universe Prince]

This is my complaint on you too.

If this present level of fighting is not war what is it?

I'm not changing the the definition of war. I'll repeat myself one last time in this thread: War, generally speaking would be "a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air." Possibly one could argue we are in a such a conflict with al-Qaeda. We are not in such a conflict with "terror". Now if you want to do away with the notion of a "war on terror" and pursue merely a war on al-Qaeda, we can have that argument. But if we're going to start demanding definitions, then you need to settle on whether we're talking about the supposed "war on terror" or just al-Qaeda. The two are not interchangeable.

Take a position and defend it. I'll debate gladly, but this "whatever Prince says is wrong because it just is" game is something I am definitely not in the in the mood to play. Step up, or end it. Your choice.

[BT]

Terror is a practice. Al-Queda is one such practitioner.

[Universe Prince]

A practice. Not an entity. Not a group. Not a nation. Not a party. Not a consortium. Not a fraternity. Not a tribe. Not a commonwealth. Have I made my point clearly enough yet?

[BT]

Slavery is a practice. And we have gone to war over that. Granted we fought the practitioners, but the fight was over the practice.

Same with Fascism, Communism and any other ism that ruffles feathers.

[Universe Prince]

Slavery is a practice. And we have gone to war over that. Granted we fought the practitioners, but the fight was over the practice.

No, we fought a war over states leaving the union. Lincoln and most of the north didn't give a single damn about slavery. But even if the war had been over slavery, there was no war on slavery. There was a war between parties within a nation or between nations, depending on how one chooses the view the situation.

Same with Fascism, Communism and any other ism that ruffles feathers.

There was no declaration of war on fascism. In point of fact, prior to U.S. entry into the war, many people in the U.S. thought fascism was a grand idea. We made war on Germany, not on Nazism. Again, I'm willing to accept that we are at war with al-Qaeda. We are not, however, waging a "war on terror". The reasons for this are so obvious that I have a hard time understanding why I need to point this out.

[Plane]

England fought a war with Slavery , won it after a few decades of fighting slavers.

Was the elimination of Piracy no war?

Ig Al Queda were not terrorists we would not be at war with Al Queda.

[Universe Prince]

Was the elimination of Piracy no war?

It has not been eliminated.

Ig Al Queda were not terrorists we would not be at war with Al Queda.

Plane, I expected better of you. That isn't the point, as I have already explained. So we're done.

[Christians4LessGvt]

[Xavier_Onassis]

This is a totally dumbass toon.

What happened to the plane where they said "let's roll"? Let's interview the passengers, okay?
Oops! they are dead. There is some speculation that they were blown out of the sky on orders from Dick Cheney.


Reading criminals their rights takes place after an arrest. The Supreme Court decision has nothing whatever to do with reading anyone their Miranda rights.

No suicidal hijacker has actually been arrested or tried. Being suicidal hijackers, they are all deceased, every one of them. None is therefore in Guantanamo nor have any of them ever BEEN in Guantanamo.

[Amianthus]

No suicidal hijacker has actually been arrested or tried.

No successful suicidal hijacker has been arrested or tried. Not every suicidal hijacker is successful.

[Michael Tee]

<<No suicidal hijacker has actually been arrested or tried. Being suicidal hijackers, they are all deceased, every one of them. None is therefore in Guantanamo nor have any of them ever BEEN in Guantanamo.>>

They're in that Big Guantanamo in the bowels of the Earth, under the highest mountains and the deepest seas, but the playbook is still written by Cheney and Bush.   In Hell as it is on Earth.

[Xavier_Onassis]

If a suicidal hijacker could be arrested, ten they should be read their rights at an opportune moment, as depicted in the idiotic cartoon. But if they could be arrested, then they would no longer be a threat.

They are not becoming successful because someone is required to read them their rights while in the act of suicidally crashing a plane into stuff.

My point is that this cartoon is beyond stupid.

[Plane]

If a suicidal hijacker could be arrested, ten they should be read their rights at an opportune moment, as depicted in the idiotic cartoon. But if they could be arrested, then they would no longer be a threat.

They are not becoming successful because someone is required to read them their rights while in the act of suicidally crashing a plane into stuff.

My point is that this cartoon is beyond stupid.

We catch the real thing now and then , what to do with them is the real question , another real question is how to avoid picking up the innocent too since the Al Quieda blends in so well.

http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=9-11/suspects/moussaoui/juries-convinced-mousaui-lied-about-involvement.txt

A juror in the death-penalty trial of Zacarias Moussaoui said Thursday that some panel members decided the al-Qaida conspirator should not be executed because he was a bit player in the Sept. 11 attacks and did not kill anyone that day.

"He wasn't necessarily part of the 9/11 operation," said the juror, who spoke about the jury's deliberations on condition of anonymity. "His role in 9/11 was actually minor," said the juror, who voted for a life prison sentence even though he considered Moussaoui "a despicable character" and someone who "mocks and taunts family members whose loved ones died."

Moussaoui did just that one final time Thursday, when he was formally sentenced at the federal courthouse in Alexandria, Va., to life in prison without parole ? a day after the jury rejected the death penalty. The only person convicted in the United States in the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, he confronted the families of the victims and the judge he has spent years insulting.

Even after U.S. District Judge Leonie Brinkema instructed him not to make a political speech, Moussaoui, 37, leaned forward in his chair, his lips touching a microphone and hissed: "God curse America, and God save Osama bin Laden! You will never get him!"

Brinkema replied with a smile, noting that Moussaoui had yelled "America, you lost! ... I won!" after the jury delivered its verdict. "Mr. Moussaoui, if you look around this courtroom today, every person in this room when this proceeding is over will leave this courtroom, and they are free to go anyplace they want," she said before pronouncing the mandatory life sentence. "They can go outside, and they can feel the sun, they can smell fresh air ... but when you leave this courtroom, you go back into custody. In terms of winners and losers, it is quite clear who won yesterday and who lost yesterday."

The judge concluded by voicing contempt for Moussaoui's oft-expressed desire to have been part of the Sept. 11 operation, in which he said he was supposed to fly a fifth hijacked airplane into the White House.

"You came here to be a martyr and to die in a big bang of glory," Brinkema said. "But to paraphrase the poet T.S. Eliot, you will die with a whimper."

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=ramzi_bin_al-shibh


http://www.mcclatchydc.com/226/story/39965.html

[Plane]

There was no declaration of war on fascism. In point of fact, prior to U.S. entry into the war, many people in the U.S. thought fascism was a grand idea. We made war on Germany, not on Nazism. Again, I'm willing to accept that we are at war with al-Qaeda. We are not, however, waging a "war on terror". The reasons for this are so obvious that I have a hard time understanding why I need to point this out.

Sometimes you almost seem to get it.
FDR seldom said anything nice about Fascism during WWII .

I can just imagine you upbraiding Chirchill after one of his speeches .

There is no declaired war on Terrorism , but if Al Quieda had decided to not be violent we would not be fighting them.

What if Hitler had sat at the feet of Gandi and learned the method? Fascism might not have turned out so badly.

Would we have had WWII without a violent Fascism?

[Xavier_Onassis]

"You came here to be a martyr and to die in a big bang of glory," Brinkema said. "But to paraphrase the poet T.S. Eliot, you will die with a whimper."

=========================================
What we really need on our judiciary: more David Carusoes, but with a more literary bent.

I doubt that when Moussaoui dies, very few will remember who he was. But from Moussaoui's viewpoint, he is a hero, because he was an insignificant Algerian who defied the United States and made it recognize both his existence and his cause.

Al Qaeda volunteers do not think like Americans. That much is clear.