Bush's America: 100 Percent Al-Qaida Free Since 2001

[sirs]

What an even worse f'ed up war, WWII.  400,000+ DEAD Americans, they ain't never coming back.  With those #'s we had no business even thinking about getting involved, right?       

[Michael Tee]

<<What an even worse f'ed up war, WWII.  400,000+ DEAD Americans, they ain't never coming back.  With those #'s we had no business even thinking about getting involved, right?       Roll Eyes>>

I think there was a big difference between the publicly-stated goals of the Allies for fighting WWII and the real reasons they went to war.  But at least the "official reasons" for going to war were understood by most of the Allied populations and were approved of, in the main.  Maybe not 100% but with a solid majority.  And by some fortunate coincidence, the "official reasons" for the war made a lot of sense to the average man in the street.  Actually, they made more sense and were far more moral than the real Allied reasons for joining in the war.  And by another fortunate coincidence, the war produced the desired results not only for the Allied ruling classes but for the people who had been persuaded to make war for the "official" and more altruistic reasons.  So I would have to say that from either perspective, WWII DID make sense both for the ruling classes of the Allied Powers and for the common people, who were convinced that they had to fight racism and fascism.

By contrast, the Iraq war makes no sense, either to the ruling class or even for that segment of the general population dumb enough to buy into the "official reasons" of (a) WMD and (b) after the WMD idea was totally discredited, of "democracy for Iraq."  It isn't working for either group - - even if viewed in terms of an oil grab, the cost so far exceeded the original estimates that there will never be a reasonable ROI before control once again, as it must inevitably do, reverts to the locals.  And as for establishing "democracy" in Iraq, most Americans now don't give a rat's ass, since they can already see the futility and in any event don't wish to make the sacrifices required.

[sirs]

No, the only difference is the type of enemy we're facing Tee.  that's pretty much it.  So your backwards assignment of "all" those deaths, "soldiers never coming back", falls flat on its face, when we don't judge a war by how many deaths occur, but by why we went in, in the 1st place.  Now, you can embrace your cockamamie notion that Bush alone lied, and that it was a bogus war to begin with, but you need to use that as your stepping stone.  Using American military deaths as some rationale as to why the war is supposedly so f'ed up, becomes pretty idiotic when you compare it to the other wars that lost us exponentially more lives

The Iraq war made perfect sense, with what the intel was telling us combined with the events of 911.  Now, I realize to a close minded america hating, miltary hating socialist like yourself, no manner of documentation, or public declarations, even if they were....let's say.... from Kofi Annan himself, would ever bring you to look at the events leading to the war OBJECTIVELY, for even a microsecond.  You'd just rationalize how Kofi was hoodwinked and fell for the neo-cons fascist agenda.  Or even became a neo-con convert.  Which is fine.  Call it the Elvis factor.  Point being you can (ir)rationally judge the war as bogus until you're blue in the face.  Doesn't make it so, but at least you feel better about it, and I guess that's what counts

[Michael Tee]

Do you ever stop to wonder, sirs, how come the U.S. seemed to be so solidly in support of WWII despite the heavy casualty count (which in itself was about half of the British Empire casualties and less than a tenth of the Soviet Union's) and yet, so divided on Iraq, a war which in your opinion at least was equally virtuous, and produced far less U.S. casualties?

[sirs]

Did you ever stop to wonder, if we had the likes of CNN broadcasting death after death, death count after death count, failed attack after failed attack, 24/7, the same "support" would have been present??

Different day and age, Tee.  Best go back to irrationally claiming how this is all for the oil, as we directly pump it into our freighters.....oh wait     

[Michael Tee]

WWII radio broadcasters went with whatever troops they wanted to go with, wherever they could hitch a ride.  "Embedding" wasn't reserved to a few carefully selected government lap-dogs who had to stick with the unit they were embedded with and couldn't hop around from one to the other.

CNN broadcasts interviews with "independent military analysts," who, as it turns out, are all government-briefed and cooperating to present the administration's side of the conflict as "independent analysis."

The papers in WWII carried casualty lists, "Killed in Action" and mothers got gold stars which they proudly displayed in their front windows when their boy was killed.  I was just a little kid during the war, but I remember our cleaning lady, whose only son was a prisoner of the Japs, captured at the fall of Hong Kong.  Americans and Canadians were not as shielded from the casualties of the war as you seem to think they were.

[sirs]

LOL....it wasn't CNN Tee.  You're getting radio broadcasters and embedded reporters intertwined.  They weren't.  They were 2 seperate entities.  There were no cable news networks broadcasting 24/7.  SEEING the carnage goes alot deeper then hearing it on the radio.  If there were such visual/video networks operating 24/7, there would have been barely any support watching "all our kids dying in the thousands".......just in 1 day for crying out loud

oy

also gotta love the continuous illogical MSM-in-cahoots-with-Bush-and-war diatribes.  When are you opening at the Improv?

[Michael Tee]

Well, you are forgetting about newsreels.  There were newsreels which the theatres changed weekly, so the folks on the homefront DID get to see combat film.  The Red Army stuff was hard-core combat and didn't pull any punches.  The U.S., British and Canadian newsreels were more about the air war and their infantry films didn't show as much combat, also they tended to keep Allied dead out of the picture.  I saw one U.S. newsreel of a Jap burning alive after being hit with a flamethrower that was absolutely horrific.  I don't remember seeing the newsreels of the Normandy landings, which must have been very popular, but I guess there they couldn't avoid showing Allied dead.

In general, if you think the homefront was kept ignorant of casualties or the horrors of war by our media, I'd have to say you are dead wrong.

[sirs]

News reels were NOT broadcast 24/7, NOR were they focused on showing the death and maiming of American Soldiers, nor did they focus on the multitude of failed attacks & counter-attacks by our forces, nor were their "military analysts" explaining how flawed and poor such planning was, resulting in that many more deaths of American soldiers who "ain't never coming back"

Good gravy, you're desperate this evening

[Michael Tee]

<<News reels were NOT broadcast 24/7>>

So what?  Just because something is broadcast 24/7 doesn't mean the average viewer is watching it 24/7, nor is there any indication that multiple exposures would increase the awareness of what's seen the first time.

Today's couch potato is exposed to TV stimuli on demand every day, so if he sees a dead body on the news at 8:00 he sees in the same evening Dancing with the Stars, American Idol, Get Smart or Seinfeld re-runs, MTV, local news and weather, haemorrhoid commercials, bank commercials, etc. all night long, every night of the week.   In the 1940s, nobody had TV, so the only visual stimulus they got was the weekly movie and the newsreel that usually came with it, and that was the entire week's entertainment, apart from radio, which of course was entirely non-visual.

<<NOR were they focused on showing the death and maiming of American Soldiers>>

Oh, yeah, like that's the focus of CNN - - dead Americans.

<< nor did they focus on the multitude of failed attacks & counter-attacks by our forces, nor were their "military analysts" explaining how flawed and poor such planning was, resulting in that many more deaths of American soldiers who "ain't never coming back">>

Well, when they reported them, as they had to, they did try to show the silver lining.  Nothing was ever a wholly unmitigated disaster, not even the Dieppe landing.  Point taken.

<<Good gravy, you're desperate this evening>>

Just trying to present the facts, sirs, although to someone as desperately committed to a ridiculous fantasy as you are, I can certainly understand how the truth can be misperceived as "desperation."

[Plane]

That's 4,000 DEAD Americans, Rich.  They ain't never comin back.  And 26,000 majorly fucked-up Americans in addition.  Ain't none a them gonna play for the Cowboys anytime soon, Rich.  That is one hell of a pile of fucked-up wasted lives, Rich, even if none a them is any skin off a your nose.  You might think everything worked out fine, but I guess that's just from one person's POV.

Isn't getting killed a lot  a good reason for Al Quieda to throw in the towel?

[Rich]

>>Yeah, sure, Rich.  For liberty.  If that's what you want to call it.<<

Glad you agree.

>>Fuck Molsons AND hockey.  They're both un-Islamic.  Time for a change.  Change you can believe in.<<

I'm sure your muslim friends will have a laundry list of things that are un-Islamic. Coming to a video near YOU. that thing you're sitting in front of right now will surely piss them off. Not exactly 17th century.

>>That's 4,000 DEAD Americans, Rich.  They ain't never comin back.  And 26,000 majorly fucked-up Americans in addition.<<

True. They're not coming back. on the other hand, I'll bet you they'd do it all over again. That's what Americans do Mike. We fight, so people like you can hate us and wish us dead. It's a dirty job, but we do it so folk like you can sleep soundly at night. Dreaming sick little dead American dreams.

>>Ain't none a them gonna play for the Cowboys anytime soon, Rich.<<

Fuck the Cowboys.

>>That is one hell of a pile of fucked-up wasted lives, Rich, even if none a them is any skin off a your nose.<<

The fact is, the veterens Hollywood has sold you are a lie. Let me clue you in on something Mike. Not everything you see on TV is true, and not everrything you read on the internet is true. Communist/liberals like yourself eat that shit up. Why? My guess is because it's easier than thinking and it fits the template. It's not true Mike. The facts don't bear it out. But then we're back to the old Sirs and lima beans again aren't we. The only thing that will make those lives wasted is if demcrats are allowed to surrender. Then they'll be wasted. Only if demcrats are allowed to snatch victory and make it defeat will those lives be wasted.

>>You might think everything worked out fine, but I guess that's just from one person's POV.<<

And you see disaster for America and it's brave fighting men and women. I'm sure it's the only thing that gets you a chubby Mike.

[Michael Tee]

<<That's what Americans do Mike. We fight . . . >>

You sure do, Rich.  In Grenada, in Panama City, in Iraq - - wherever you think you find somebody small enough and weak enough to invade and conquer, with minimal casualties of your own.  Only sometimes (Vietnam comes to mind) you miscalculate a little.  You miscalculate because you are racists and because you are stupid.  You never seem to be able to believe that little brown people can stand up to you, fight back, stop you dead in your tracks.

<< . . . so people like you can hate us and wish us dead. >>

The only people who hate you and wish you were dead are the people whose land you invaded, whose homes and children you have blown to bits, whose daughters and sisters you have raped, whose brothers you have imprisoned and tortured.  No one hates you and wants you dead without a good reason, Rich, and that good reason is what you've done to them and the lies you tell yourselves to justify it all.  Lies  like <<It's a dirty job, but we do it so folk like you can sleep soundly at night.>>  That's bullshit, Rich, I know it's bullshit and more importantly, there isn't a single one of your victims that doesn't know that it's bullshit.  Everyone knows what you do and everyone knows why you do it.  So you can save all that lying bullshit for people who don't know any better, only there aren't any.

<<Dreaming sick little dead American dreams.>>

I'm dreaming that the Americans will be driven out of Iraq like they were driven out of Vietnam, like a bunch of whipped dogs with their tails between their legs, and that the cost in body bags and broken lives will be such that they'll never dream of invading another country without just cause for the next 20 generations.

<<The fact is, the veterens Hollywood has sold you are a lie. Let me clue you in on something Mike. Not everything you see on TV is true, and not everrything you read on the internet is true. Communist/liberals like yourself eat that shit up. Why? My guess is because it's easier than thinking and it fits the template. It's not true Mike. The facts don't bear it out. >>

That's good news then, Rich.  All those guys gonna throw away their crutches and Hallelujah!  they're gonna walk again!!  That's wonderful.

<<But then we're back to the old Sirs and lima beans again aren't we. >>

Sorry, Rich.  That one went right over my head.  LIMA beans??

<<The only thing that will make those lives wasted is if demcrats are allowed to surrender. Then they'll be wasted. Only if demcrats are allowed to snatch victory and make it defeat will those lives be wasted.>>

Well, Rich, if that's all it takes, then you better get ready for the biggest waste your country's seen since the Fall of Saigon.  Not now, not even in the first six months of Obama's inauguration, but soon, Rich - - a lot sooner than you think.

[Plane]

I'm dreaming that the Americans will be driven out of Iraq like they were driven out of Vietnam, like a bunch of whipped dogs with their tails between their legs, and that the cost in body bags and broken lives will be such that they'll never dream of invading another country without just cause for the next 20 generations.

You may as well praise Hitler and Tojo for the good they did for the world killing Americans , they killed more Americans than the Viet Cong did.

I hope that Iraq becomes free and prosperous , I even hope that you do not feel too bitter at our success when Iraq is Free and prosperous .

And if President Barak Obama does everything.... everything in his power to surpress Iran from gaining Atomic wepons , I hope you are not bitter at him either.

[Brassmask]

What an even worse f'ed up war, WWII.  400,000+ DEAD Americans, they ain't never coming back.  With those #'s we had no business even thinking about getting involved, right?       

The difference being, of course, that they died in service to stopping an actual threat that everyone can see not a manufactured boogey man that everyone has to close their eyes and imagine lurking out there in the dark.

I would hardly call the ragtag operation known as Al Queda anywhere near equal to the threat of the Nazi invading armies with the full support of a wealthy nation behind it.  Of course, AQ did allegedly make a real strike within the US borders, something the Nazis only dreamed of doing for the most part.  But then the Nazis did take over several countries and hold them for months to years and wipe out 6 million Jews something the AQ club can only dream about.

The mistake Bush is making is that he is not a reluctant warrior.  That's the only kind of warrior chief a whole nation can get behind.  Only the more trusting, more easily led half of a nation will follow an ambitious warrior of choice and even most of that half will eventually wake up and realize that guy is a moron and that they have made a grave error in giving him power.