brains of homosexuals are like those of straight people of the opposite sex

[kimba1]

I`m not sure gender truely is an issue on this matter.
I know very unmasculine guys who totally are not gay in fact they act that way to get more girls.
I read a study awhile back that mens concepts of what attractive to women usually tend to be abit off.
ex. us men tend to high think highly musular men are more desireable to women.
but slim athelic built is actually prefered.
I remember a gay comedian saying in his prom he spoiled his date for all men.
because she`ll now think men will listen to her.

[Plane]

Is a minimal level of masculinity the reason for homosexuality?

Or are lots of Homosexuals quite macho?

[fatman]

Is a minimal level of masculinity the reason for homosexuality?

Or are lots of Homosexuals quite macho?

Without getting into the slang terms, there are plenty of both.  I don't think any one version of masculinity is dominant.

I DO think that a lot of gays think that they need to "act" gay, with the lisp and such, rather than being themselves.  Whether it is because they wish to reinforce a societal stereotype or simply going with the crowd, that's up for debate.

[kimba1]

uhm
note :I don`t see these videos
I`m quoting a radio host.
but most if not all gay porn is macho.
none are portrayed as stereotype limpwristed gays.

ok I did see a jeff stryker vid
but in a hetero way only.

[fatman]

One of the hottest sellers in the gay porn industry is "twink porn", slim to athletic guys in their late teens and early twenties.  A lot of them are rather femme.

[kimba1]

on my name is earl ,one of the character said brokeback mountain ruined it for gay men.
saying now all gaymen want the hunky cowboy look.


I had no idea about the twink trend
I definately prove I don`t see enough gay porn.
but doesn`t the twink means a preference to youth instead all things femme?

[fatman]

Twink is definitely a preference for young, true.  But there's lots of tranny porn out there too, and that is definitely femme.  I don't think fetishism occurs more in homosexuals, but I think that it is expressed more.  There's a lot of things that I find personally disturbing and repulsive, but if it's legal and floats your boat, more power to ya.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Free will still wins, Cynthia.  I never said we don't have desires, Cynthia.  I simply referenced on how we chose to act or not act on them
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Free will is a lot more important if one lives in a society with religious taboos against homosexuality,

In a culture like Thailand, there is not the huge onus on being gay that there is in the US. Many Christians and Jews consider homosexuality sinful, and those who surrender to it are either children of the devil or mentally unbalanced. 

In a lot of countries, being gay is seen like eating goat in the US. Acceptable, but a bit strange.
In fundamentalist subculture of the US South, being gay is like eating cockroaches publicly: either plum crazy or downright satanic.

Free will is one thing when just being eccentric, and something else again when it is against the prevailing cultural values that surround one.

[sirs]

Umm, there are many free will choices that go against the norm of whatever particular culture & society they live in.  Still doesn't make it anything hardwired.  You'll let us know when they actually come up with some scientific proof, k?  Our thanks in advance

[kimba1]

oh no
fatman
you shouldn`t of brought that up
now I`m bound to talk about it
as a resident of san fracisco.
I have to point out all the tranny stuff are for the interest of heterosexual men(not me)
I don`t know whay but straight men love transgender.
the video store here make great effect to make sure those video don`t get placed to the gay section.
it creeps gay men out,but not straight guys(not me)
as a hetero I can`t explain why this is
and this is worldwide.
I see this japanese comics also.

[Cynthia]

I had a student in 2001 who was diagnosed with this; She had a deep voice and facial fuzz (hair)....The girl was as cute as a button, but it was very obvious that she had more male hormones. Now, that isn't to say she will chose one way or another in terms of sexually relating to a mate, but it is clearly a biological condition. and if that is scientifically proven...then why not a desire to procreate with someone who is not in our traditional scheme of what's normal?

Free will still wins, Cynthia.  I never said we don't have desires, Cynthia.  I simply referenced on how we chose to act or not act on them

I am not arguing that, Sirs.
Free will can still keep this child who demostrates feminine behaviors, from chosing to relate sexually to another male when he grows up.
But, my point is that there are differences that perhaps we need to look into with a bit more science.

God, forbid that your wife or any family would birth a child who grows up making the choice to be "gay"...I am sorry if I offend anyone here, but I am a Christian, first and foremost....yet I still can not judge to the depths that some would against homosexuals. I believe there is a fair and just Lord who will open His arms to  any soul in the end.

But, I do believe that there are choices we can make in life to halt the desire to sin. Yes, I agree with that in my faith, Sirs. I do.

But what I am saying here is that biologically speaking there are so many differences genetically speaking- within the cells...my gosh, within all cellular life goin on in the universe, why box them into one bad/good category?

I hear you doing just that. I also hear you saying that sexual preference is a choice and that to choose the "right" path is to force nature to conform to the "word that is the Bible'.

Your 'choice' based on faith is not the same as the "choice" based on hormones.
This debate is not about whether it is right or wrong. For me it's a medical/biological question that needs exploration.

When I see a child who has such tendencies, I wonder if God in all of His love for the world decided once upon a time that to be born with intersex issues was basically BAD?
I doubt it... so I also tend to doubt this interpretation of what is written in teh Bible.

But, I support my Bible, My Lord before science in this case.....

it doesn't hurt to question, however.

Science clearly is not absent in faith.

[sirs]

Free will still wins, Cynthia.  I never said we don't have desires.  I simply referenced on how we chose to act or not act on them

I am not arguing that, Sirs.  Free will can still keep this child who demostrates feminine behaviors, from chosing to relate sexually to another male when he grows up.  But, my point is that there are differences that perhaps we need to look into with a bit more science.

Ummmm, with all due respect Cynthia, I think they are.....in spades.  And the best they can come up with so far is the "size of the house", that I referenced in my initial response to Prince.  So, getting back to square 1, we all have desires, many of them spurrned on & driven by the famouse teenage hormones.  I could go into what my sexual desires ..... were.  But this isn't the place or peoples to go into that with.  And no amount of science is going to help me out with them

[Cynthia]

Free will still wins, Cynthia.  I never said we don't have desires.  I simply referenced on how we chose to act or not act on them

I am not arguing that, Sirs.  Free will can still keep this child who demostrates feminine behaviors, from chosing to relate sexually to another male when he grows up.  But, my point is that there are differences that perhaps we need to look into with a bit more science.

Ummmm, with all due respect Cynthia, I think they are.....in spades.  And the best they can come up with so far is the "size of the house", that I referenced in my initial response to Prince.  So, getting back to square 1, we all have desires, many of them spurrned on & driven by the famouse teenage hormones.  I could go into what my sexual desires ..... were.  But this isn't the place or peoples to go into that with.  And no amount of science is going to help me out with them

Oh so were you a child who cried with the girls, tattled with the girls, spoke in a high pitched voice, like the girls, ordered pink diaries through Scholastic Book Orders with pink pens/feathers attached, craved the attention of little girls and teased the boys in the 3rd grade?

[Xavier_Onassis]

If a person has no homosexual attractions, free will is pretty much a moot point.

If I hate anchovies, resisting ordering them is a very, very easy thing to do.

There are, however, people who DO have homosexual attractions, and I suggest to you that you have no clue as to how much will power they have or need. You are not them, and can never know this.

I think we can take people at their word about what attracts and repels them. This cannot really be measured scientifically, although at some point this may be possible if we know a lot more about brain waves and similar phenomenae.

In a society that has few taboos against homosexuality, people tend to do what their attractions tell them to do.

[sirs]

Oh so were you a child who cried with the girls, tattled with the girls, spoke in a high pitched voice, like the girls, ordered pink diaries through Scholastic Book Orders with pink pens/feathers attached, craved the attention of little girls and teased the boys in the 3rd grade?

You really don't want to go there, Cynthia