brains of homosexuals are like those of straight people of the opposite sex

[Universe Prince]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

The Swedish study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences journal, compared the size of the brain's halves in 90 adults. Gay men and straight women had halves of a similar size, while the right side was bigger in lesbian women and straight men. [...] When these results were collected, it was found that lesbian women and straight men shared a particular "asymmetry" in their hemisphere size, while straight women and gay men had no difference between the size of the different halves of their brain. In other words, structurally, at least, gay men were more like straight women, and gay women more like straight men.

[Plane]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm

How does this co-relate with studys of IQ and sex diffrences?

[sirs]

In other words, structurally, at least, gay men were more like straight women, and gay women more like straight men

More accurately, geometrically.  Until science can diagram the path of all nerves, and what each neuron's specific function is, "structurally" doesn't quite cut it. 

In other words you can have 2 identical homes, size wise from the outside, same square footage and all.  Doesn't make how they're designed inside identical, or even similar.

[Cynthia]

In other words, structurally, at least, gay men were more like straight women, and gay women more like straight men

More accurately, geometrically.  Until scence can diagram the path of all nerves, and what each neuron's specific function, "structurally" doesn't quite cut it. 

In other words you can have 2 identical homes, size wise from the outside, same square footage and all.  Doesn't make how their designed inside identical, or even similar.

Sirs,
I used to think that being "gay" was all in the "mind", until I witnessed a student in my class this year. This boy was so very feminine at only 8 years of age. He loved *everything pink and girly*.His voice tone was higher pitched and clearly  he was femine in nature (and btw, proud of it) I was supportive of his self esteem, as well. btw.

Last year I had another student who was also very feminie in his behavior-----sewing Barbie clothes for his girl 'friends' etc...

I have to say that I have witnessed first hand the very brain that has been "studied" here.

There just has to be something to this chemical, biological genetic element that is brain ...when it comes to whether a child leans in one direction or the other.

It is no longer an issue of Religion or Right.

And I, for one, do not support same sex issues.

I have to question the whole idea of the "study" of gender based genes.

There is something to the brain that we are not privy to, and only when you have witnessed first hand a child's prefernce to be either, will you truly see the biological points within.

[sirs]

I have witnessed it Cynthia, so I have the objecivity to assess for myself, and given my predisposition towards my walk with God, and the acute lack of any scientific proof to the contrary, I'm airing on the side of caution....that of my spiritual being, when I'm no longer a living entity of the materailistic world we live in currently.  And my God has made it clear to me what's right, what's wrong, what's sin and what isn't.

Doesn't mean I don't tolerate such a choice.  But it also means I'm not obliged in any way to support it as "normal" or perfectly acceptable lifestyle.  Why do some people chose to pierce nearly every orafice they have?  Why do some people choose to tattoo their body from head to foot?  Synapse in the brain, you're claiming?  I'm not buying it

[Cynthia]

I have witnessed it Cynthia, so I have the objecivity to assess for myself, and given my predisposition towards my walk with God, and the acute lack of any scientific proof to the contrary, I'm airing on the side of caution....that of my spiritual being, when I'm no longer a living entity of the materailistic world we live in currently.  And my God has made it clear to me what's right, what's wrong, what's sin and what isn't.

Doesn't mean I don't tolerate such a choice.  But it also means I'm not obliged in any way to support it as "normal" or perfectly acceptable lifestyle.  Why do some people chose to pierce nearly every orafice they have?  Why do some people choose to tattoo their body from head to foot?  Synapse in the brain, you're claiming?  I'm not buying it

Sirs, well, I am not saying that a boy child who displays feminine characteristics should be classified as not normal.And he certainly should not be classified in the same category as one who choses to pierce body parts, or a religious faith etc.
As I observed the differences between this boy and the other boys in the class, there were clear biological traits which seemed to be innately feminine in him,  and certainly not something this boy made a choice to imitate. 
I realize that your faith is 'part of you' from birth, but this is more biological in nature, not brain based synapes. (unless gender origniates from Brain Synapses, solely)

I also believe that same sex relations is wrong. I am speaking of tendencies that are clearly unique in a physical nature. Now, if that boy choses to be with a woman for a mate when he grows up, even though he may have attractions to men, that is a "choice".  I have heard of gay men making such a decision because of their faith in God.

Interesting, becasue this little boy would never hang around other boys. He related to others, made choices like the the girl students. Most boys play with other boys in 3rd grade. So, I am curious. Just watching from the outside. Noting the interesting differences between the genders, but If indeed there is something biological in the issue of whether someone is "gay" or not, my jury is still out on this one. 

[sirs]

And as I have observed Cynthia, I see children and young adults make CHOICES that makes no sense to me, what-so-ever.  Whether it's because of some obsession, rebellion, perversion, or whatever.  Why would anyone want to pierce their tongue??, their nipple?, their penis?  Obviously I'm not referring to 6-7year olds, since I know that's the 1st thing Xo would try to make hay with, the point being, we all make choices that boggle the mind.  You're trying to claim that we're hardwired to make these choice.  Without some heavy handed scientific PROOF, I'm going with free will on this one. 

And the argument used to claim "why would some gay boy choose to be ridiculed and at risk for bodily harm by true homphobes", would be the same answer as to why does someone want to pierce their penis or drill massive holes thru their ear lobes?

In other words, I have no idea, but its their choice, as long as it's their body.......with their parents' permission of course

[Amianthus]

Why would anyone want to pierce their tongue??, their nipple?, their penis?

Well, the "Prince Albert" piercing (ring through the head of the penis) was purported to be functional originally. However, now they're done for sexual pleasure (both for the person and his / her partner).

[Xavier_Onassis]

I would say that sexual orientation is much of the time hormonal, and hormones are genetically determined.

Just as a normal heterosexual might choose to be celibate, a latent homosexual might choose to be celibate or heterosexual. Sure, this is a matter of choice, but again, that choice is guided by hormones, which are genetic in origin much of the time.

As for full body tattoos and piercings, those are also one's free choice, but I think that they are psychologically driven rather than hormonally driven. I would say that such things are more related to masochism than gender. I imagine that there are heterosexuals who opt to be homosexual and vice versa because they are masochists as well, bit I would imagine that such cases are very scarce.

[sirs]

Hey, their choice, (as grotesque a choice as I might find it).  Thanks for the head's up, Ami.  

And for Xo, I went thru the similar sexually driven hormonal desires and urges, and chose to follow some, and not to follow others.

Still, my choice

[kimba1]

I find the concept of choice highly controversal than homosexuals is biological.
due to thre very fact it seems to be a great deal more gay men than females.
meaning despite culturally lesbians are more accepted and even encouraged.
the concept of choice means females are more harder to be with than males.

[sirs]

Hey, I can't explain other sexual urges either, only that people have them.  It how one chooses to act upon them.

And until I see scientific proof to the contrary, free will still wins

[Cynthia]

I would say that sexual orientation is much of the time hormonal, and hormones are genetically determined.

Just as a normal heterosexual might choose to be celibate, a latent homosexual might choose to be celibate or heterosexual. Sure, this is a matter of choice, but again, that choice is guided by hormones, which are genetic in origin much of the time.

As for full body tattoos and piercings, those are also one's free choice, but I think that they are psychologically driven rather than hormonally driven. I would say that such things are more related to masochism than gender. I imagine that there are heterosexuals who opt to be homosexual and vice versa because they are masochists as well, bit I would imagine that such cases are very scarce.

Well, that's what I have been trying to say....yes, it hormones makes sense.

 The tone in the little boy's voice, the manner in which he moves, speaks with such high pitch and emotes ...are all so very feminine. That's just an observation.  What makes it interesting and so clear is that the observation is objective and easy because the subjects are children. Children are such natural beings to observe and take note of such differences....
I frankly don't get the connection between the issue of "hormones" and piercing.....faith and hotdogs. Choices? ha! But if one wants to pierce their weenie....shesh...go for it....


I wouldn't have a tatoo engraved on my big toe, even if you paid me. so to each his / her own.
Choices vs physical "makeup" ?

Seems to be the issue here. 
XO, once again hit this one on the nail. ....without a ring around the rosie or the ralphie!

[Cynthia]

Hey, I can't explain other sexual urges either, only that people have them.  It how one chooses to act upon them.

And until I see scietific proof to the contrary, free will still wins

There are boys and girls  who are born with with more female/male parts, Sirs. Surely you have heard of such a thing. I had a student in 2001 who was diagnosed with this; She had a deep voice and facial fuzz (hair)....The girl was as cute as a button, but it was very obvious that she had more male hormones. Now, that isn't to say she will chose one way or another in terms of sexually relating to a mate, but it is clearly a biological condition. and if that is scientifically proven...then why not a desire to procreate with someone who is not in our traditional scheme of what's normal?
http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

[sirs]

I had a student in 2001 who was diagnosed with this; She had a deep voice and facial fuzz (hair)....The girl was as cute as a button, but it was very obvious that she had more male hormones. Now, that isn't to say she will chose one way or another in terms of sexually relating to a mate, but it is clearly a biological condition. and if that is scientifically proven...then why not a desire to procreate with someone who is not in our traditional scheme of what's normal?

Free will still wins, Cynthia.  I never said we don't have desires, Cynthia.  I simply referenced on how we chose to act or not act on them