Author Topic: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing  (Read 23010 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« on: June 22, 2008, 10:20:21 AM »
The Facts in Iraq Are Changing
By Michael Barone - Sat June 21, 2008

As we enter the second half of the campaign year, facts are undermining the Democratic narrative that has dominated our politics since about the time Hurricane Katrina rolled into the Gulf coast -- most importantly, the facts about Iraq.

During the Democratic primary season, all the party's candidates veered hardly a jot or tittle from the narrative that helped the Democrats sweep the November 2006 elections. Iraq is spiraling into civil war, we invaded unwisely and have botched things ever since, no good outcome is possible, and it is time to get out of there as fast as we can.

In January 2007, when George W. Bush ordered the surge strategy, which John McCain had advocated since the summer of 2003, Barack Obama informed us that the surge couldn't work. The only thing to do was to get out as soon as possible.

That stance proved to be a good move toward winning the presidential nomination -- but it was poor prophecy. It is beyond doubt now that the surge has been hugely successful, beyond even the hopes of its strongest advocates, like Frederick and Kimberly Kagan. Violence is down enormously, Anbar and Basra and Sadr City have been pacified, Prime Minister Maliki has led successful attempts to pacify Shiites as well as Sunnis, and the Iraqi parliament has passed almost all of the "benchmark" legislation demanded by the Democratic Congress -- all of which Barack Obama seems to have barely noticed or noticed not at all. He has not visited Iraq since January 2006 and did not seek a meeting with Gen. David Petraeus when he was in Washington.

I can remember how opponents of the Vietnam War simply tuned out news of American success when at Richard Nixon's orders Gen. Creighton Abrams pursued a new strategy. Opponents of the Iraq war, including Obama, seem to have been doing the same.

That's not true of all critics of the Bush administration and its military leaders. The editorial writers of The Washington Post have been paying close and careful attention. And even though they may be temperamentally more inclined to favor Obama's candidacy over John McCain's, they have not been unwilling to take Obama to task for his inattention to American success. Obama, the Post noted tartly on June 7, "has become unreasonably wedded to a year-old proposal to rapidly withdraw all U.S. combat forces from the country -- a plan offered when he wrongly believed that the situation would only worsen as long as American troops remained."

On June 18, a Post editorial made the same point again and noted that Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyard Zebari told Obama in a phone conversation that a precipitate withdrawal would embolden al-Qaida and Iran. But Obama told ABC News' Jake Tapper he said no such thing. Perhaps he's still trying to avoid facing facts that undermine his narrative. Which might also explain why he said he was willing to meet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions while he has not been able to find time to meet with Petraeus.

Other examples of facts undermining Democratic narratives readily occur. Last week charges were dropped against the seventh of eight Marines accused of atrocities in Haditha. The narrative, peddled by Democratic Congressman (and Marine veteran) John Murtha, of depraved American soldiers massacring innocent Iraqis seems to be falling victim to the facts.

And the fact of $4 gasoline has undermined the narrative that alternative forms of energy can painlessly supply our needs. Public opinion has switched sharply and now favors drilling offshore and, by inference, in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Democrats are scrambling to argue that drilling wouldn't make any difference -- and that anyway the oil companies aren't drilling enough on federal land they currently lease.

All of this matters because the rejection of the Republicans in the 2006 elections was a verdict on competence more than ideology. The Republicans seemed incompetent at relieving victims of Katrina, producing success in Iraq and even policing the House page programs. The Democrats could not do worse and might do better. But in the 19 months since November 2006, some important facts have changed.

If George W. Bush was wrong about the surge from summer 2003 to January 2007, Barack Obama has been wrong about it from January 2007 to today. John McCain seems to have been right on it all along. When asked why he changed his position on an issue, John Maynard Keynes said: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" What say you, Sen. Obama?
 
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelBarone/2008/06/21/the_facts_in_iraq_are_changing
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2008, 01:30:10 PM »
On June 18, a Post editorial made the same point again and noted that Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyard Zebari told Obama in a phone conversation that a precipitate withdrawal would embolden al-Qaida and Iran. But Obama told ABC News' Jake Tapper he said no such thing. Perhaps he's still trying to avoid facing facts that undermine his narrative. Which might also explain why he said he was willing to meet Mahmoud Ahmadinejad without preconditions while he has not been able to find time to meet with Petraeus.

=========================
I bey that he has not met with either Petreus or Ahmedinejad because (a) campaigning for president is pretty much more than a full-time job or (b) Petraeus is also a bit busy for a dog and pony show, and (b) he is not yet president.

The oil companies have THOUSANDS of places where they could drill both on land and offshore where they have not yet drilled. What would stop them from using up the places where they could drill before they go a-begging to despoil ANWAR and the coast of Florida/

McCain is clearly a whore of Big Oil.

It is good that Iraq has gone better than expected, because that way the next president can withdraw the troops. Except that McCain does not want to leave Iraq, not now or ever. He wants the US to stay in Iraq so that Iraq can be forced to ally itself against Iran and in favor of Israel, and to defend US Big Oil interests.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2008, 01:44:03 PM »
"McCain is clearly a whore of Big Oil"

And who is Obama a whore to?



"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2008, 01:51:21 PM »
Sounds pretty fishy.  One day there are 150,000 American invaders in the country and (say) 35,000 Iraqi Resistance fighters willing to sacrifice their own lives to drive them out.  Maybe my numbers aren't accurate, but bear with me, I'm trying to establish a principle here, not a head count.   Next day there are 20,000 more invaders and the Resistance vanishes?  This just doesn't make sense.

Far from succeeding, it sounds to me like the Resistance is lying low and waiting for its moment.  They know the surge can't be sustained.  They know a U.S. election is coming.  They know the history of the Vietnam War and the role of the Tet Offensive.  Sounds to me - - and I sure as hell hope I'm right - - that the Resistance is planning a Tet Offensive timed to the U.S. election that will knock your country back on its heels, leave it reeling and end forever its dreams of a Middle East Oil Empire, incidentally handing a landslide victory to Obama with a wide mandate to restore sanity, decency and international law to U.S. foreign policy and break decisively with the neo-con/Israel lobby that has brought the country from disaster to disaster to disaster.   Or is that too much to hope for?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2008, 02:01:58 PM »
Oh look! CU4g has found another racist piece of crap!

You are aware that this sort of sh*t convinces no one of anything, other than your own stupidity, racism and ignorance.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2008, 02:42:24 PM »
Oh look! CU4g has found another racist piece of crap!

Oh yeah it's ok for your to call McCain a whore, but if Obama is a whore
OMG it must be racist!
Why dont you MoveOn? Thats so last century. Are you like in a nursing home?
The Black man doesnt need to cry racism upon every obstacle
It's really quite pathetic of you to have such a low opinion of Blacks
In fact your views that they need the"crutch" is quite dated and racist in and of itself

You are aware that this sort of sh*t convinces no one of anything, other than your own stupidity, racism and ignorance.

I am aware that you can vomit crap but cry "wha wha wha" when you get punched back.


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 03:24:42 PM »
Okay, just run around showing this crap to others and see how many minds you change.

How is Obama supposed to be responsible in any way for what Pfleger said?

There is proof that McCain is a whore to Big Oil. He was against offshore drilling, then he runs short of donations, and so he is for it.
He actually came down to Miami after voting agaist a bill to preserve the Everglades, and took a ride in an airboat. Supposedly people are supposed to be so goddamned stupid that they are going to vote for him because he enjoyed an airboat ride.

There is no way that issuing more permits for offshore drilling will make a bit of difference. There are hundreds of offshore sites where they could drill NOW, but haven't. It would take 5-10 years to get any oil they found into production.

Are McCain's cheeks are so puffy because he is hiding lobbyists in them?

« Last Edit: June 23, 2008, 06:22:05 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

fatman

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2008, 05:14:39 PM »
That's enough of the personal garbage.

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2008, 09:08:41 PM »
I think the cartoon should have gone on to say what the bags would cost - - Pfleger, Wright, Rezko, "Bittergate," wife's comments, etc. - - the check-in clerk tells Obama the total cost is something under $10, he fishes around in his pocket for the small change, gets on the plane and flies in triumph to Washington.

I don't think the electorate gives a shit about any of that stuff, which is really picayune, compared to the huge quagmire in Iraq and the massive slow-motion train wreck that is the U.S. economy.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2008, 06:45:34 AM »
I agree with Tee. The opinions of Wright and Pfleger are entirely separate from anything Obama might or might not do as president.

The comment about frustrated small town people, guns and God was right on the money, and was never intended to have been for public consumption.

It is entirely conceivable and even likely that Tony Rezko and Bill Ayers are not actually infectuous minions of Satan, but actually possess positive qualities.

I think that anyone with even a teensy shred of imagination can imagine why a Black American woman such as Michelle Obama might have a different perception of reality vis a vis US history than, say, Cindy McCain. I tend to think that most Americans would find this entirely within the bonds of normality.

The "baggage" in this cartoon has been grossly exaggerated. I would say that it is more like a small overnight bag, and certainly less a danger than, say, a toenail clipper or an 8 oz. bottle of shampoo. Cartoons are, of course, supposed to exaggerate.

Cartoonists seem to be having a lot more trouble doing a credible cartoon of Obama than they do of McCain. There have been far happier days for cartoonists, such as when they had LBJ and Nixon and Humphrey to caricature.

The comment about McCain hiding lobbyists in his cheeks was purely facetious. Lamentably, no lobbyists were harmed (or partially digested) in the process of creating said comment.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2008, 09:27:17 AM »


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2008, 11:13:58 AM »
Clarence Thomas for president? Surely you jest! I doubt if Clarence Thomas would vote for himself.

Condi is incompetent. 9-11 is the evidence of that. She's not running, either.

Powell won't run.

JC Watts?  He is a quitter, isn't he?


"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 03:08:45 PM »
Shoulda morphed Watts and Thomas into one single grinnin', shuckin' and jivin' Uncle Tom with a polka-dotted bandanna around his neck, folding Massa's dinner napkin.  Hopefully after one more generation, their kind will never be seen again.  Black youth need a proud example of unapologetic, uncompromised black manhood, and IMHO they would be a lot better served by Barak Obama and better yet by Jeremiah Wright than by either of those two pathetic sycophants that the white racist author of the poster saw fit to lionize.  What I love about Wright is that, unlike Obama, he's not running for office and so doesn't have to trim his sails for Whitey's benefit.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2008, 08:05:30 PM »
Shoulda morphed Watts and Thomas into one single grinnin', shuckin' and jivin' Uncle Tom with a polka-dotted bandanna around his neck, folding Massa's dinner napkin.

Yash uh, dats what we gots to do,hey we cant think on our owns
i mean we gots to be liberal or we be uncle toms
at least dats what dose smart racist liberal whiteys say
cause deys believes no one can comes to a different conclusion dan dem.
even if wees studies duh issues and wants school choice or no abortion
we stills gotta tote the line oar we be ostersized
nose sah, we gots to follow the line we ares tolds to

Hopefully after one more generation, their kind will never be seen again.  Black youth need a proud example of unapologetic, uncompromised black manhood,

LOL what a crock!
The last thing Black Youth need is more of the welfare pimps.
The last thing Black Youth need is more people peddling victimhood & "the crutch".
The future is conservative blacks
Because once blacks are educated
shameful liberals are at the school house doors keeping the doors locked
once Blacks are able to reach their potential
they will not buy the snake oil of the welfare pimps


"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: The Facts In Iraq Are Changing
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 08:10:34 PM »
Funny isn't it how all the blacks seem to be flocking to the banner of Obama, very few want to be followers of J.C. Watts.  But I guess they're too fucking stupid to respond to the conservative blacks who according to you are "their future."  LMFAO.  Tommin' sure paid off for JC and his ilk, though, they milked it for all it was worth and the only ones to buy into it were the backwards-looking suckas a.k.a. white conservative racists.