Author Topic: BREAKING NEWS: Environmentalist lies!! Oh, wait. That's not news . . .  (Read 2634 times)

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Stray Pooch

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As always when the truth doesn't work try making something up. 

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzzlog/91536

The photographer and the agency that released the pictures wanted to make it seem like they were members of a lost tribe in order to call attention to the dangers the logging industry may have on the group.

Remember, it's OK to lie for the good of the cause. 

And the media will rules are "If it's good for the left, it's news.  If it's BAD for the left, shhhhhhhhh!" 

The photographer recently came clean, and news outlets, perhaps embarrassed at having been taken for a ride, have been slow to pick up the story.

Motto of the left:  The truth shall make you free - and God knows we don't want THAT.

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Michael Tee

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<<And the media will rules are "If it's good for the left, it's news.  If it's BAD for the left, shhhhhhhhh!"  >>

REALLY?  Are those the media rules?  I did not realize that.  Somebody is flagrantly in breach of them, then,  because they are splashing Obama's allegedly broken "promise" regarding campaign financing sources all over every TV screen in the country, while none of the media are referring to McCain's own flip-flops on that very same issue.  Hufpo has an article on it today, written by Arianna herself.   Very strange.  Maybe the rule is still in force, but "the left" is now represented by McCain and "the right" by Obama.  Yeah, that'd explain it. 

Stray Pooch

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<<And the media will rules are "If it's good for the left, it's news.  If it's BAD for the left, shhhhhhhhh!"  >>

REALLY?  Are those the media rules?  I did not realize that.  Somebody is flagrantly in breach of them, then,  because they are splashing Obama's allegedly broken "promise" regarding campaign financing sources all over every TV screen in the country, while none of the media are referring to McCain's own flip-flops on that very same issue.  Hufpo has an article on it today, written by Arianna herself.   Very strange.  Maybe the rule is still in force, but "the left" is now represented by McCain and "the right" by Obama.  Yeah, that'd explain it. 

Obama's flip-flop was too public to hide. 

Dan Rather's fake Bush documents.

The cut-and-paste jobs on the Bush "AWOL" charge.

Global warming.

The incidence of third-trimester abortions.

Suppressed good news from Iraq.


The motto is alive and well.

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Michael Tee

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<<Obama's flip-flop was too public to hide. >>

McCain's wasn't?  His opting in and out of the public funding scheme was all done in secret?

<<Dan Rather's fake Bush documents.>>

Judith Miller's fake weapons of mass destruction stories in the NYT.  George Bush's fake yellowcake purchase letters. 

<<The cut-and-paste jobs on the Bush "AWOL" charge.>>

The Swift-Boating of John Kerry

<<Global warming.>>

all I'm reading about now is how it's all a big fake

<<The incidence of third-trimester abortions.>>

Abortion stats aren't news.  They're medical procedures

<<Suppressed good news from Iraq.>>

LOL - from a MSM which presented "military experts" as independent news analysts, almost every one of whom was conferring with Pentagon officials on how to spin the analysis for the public.  Yeah, that's some "suppression" from some "left-wing media."

<<The motto is alive and well.>>

You are referring to the myth of a "left-wing press?"  Maybe you should check out the number of times you see REAL left-wingers like Noam Chomsky or Ralph Nader or Naomi Klein on TV - - virtually never.

Stray Pooch

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<<Obama's flip-flop was too public to hide. >>

McCain's wasn't?  His opting in and out of the public funding scheme was all done in secret?

<<Dan Rather's fake Bush documents.>>

Judith Miller's fake weapons of mass destruction stories in the NYT.  George Bush's fake yellowcake purchase letters. 

<<The cut-and-paste jobs on the Bush "AWOL" charge.>>

The Swift-Boating of John Kerry

<<Global warming.>>

all I'm reading about now is how it's all a big fake

<<The incidence of third-trimester abortions.>>

Abortion stats aren't news.  They're medical procedures

<<Suppressed good news from Iraq.>>

LOL - from a MSM which presented "military experts" as independent news analysts, almost every one of whom was conferring with Pentagon officials on how to spin the analysis for the public.  Yeah, that's some "suppression" from some "left-wing media."

<<The motto is alive and well.>>

You are referring to the myth of a "left-wing press?"  Maybe you should check out the number of times you see REAL left-wingers like Noam Chomsky or Ralph Nader or Naomi Klein on TV - - virtually never.



Abortion stats are not medical procedures.  Abortions are.  Abortion stats ARE news when they are faked to influence voting on legislation to limit third trimester abortion.

The "swift-boating" of John Kerry was NOT endorsed by the MSM.  The AWOL charges were.  Since I gave no more stock to the swifties than to the anti-Bush crowd I can't evaluate whether the charges were real or not.  I didn't read the book.  Whether Kerry was seriously injured or his injuries were exaggerated has no bearing on whether he fought or whether he qualified for the PH.  I DO know that John Kerry was a notorious manipulator who got caught trying to work both sides of Desert Storm and that his nonsense in the Winter Soldier hearings wasn't faked (though his claims certainly were). I can judge him based on facts, not lies.

The MSM gives "equal time" to appear fair (and some actually do have an interest in fairness) but the front page stories are always about the left-wing view.  You say all you are reading now is about how global warming is all fake.  Please.  There are a few token stories but by and large global warming is considered fact by the MSM, just like the myth of scientific "proof" of genetic components of homosexuality and the absolute infallibility of evolution.

This (the "lost tribe" story) is just another example of environmentalists justifying lies to "draw attention" to a perceived problem.  It ranks right up there with the striking glacier footage in "An Inconvenient Truth" that was conveniently faked.

This is why I remain unconvinced about environmentalist claims and see no more reason to base public policy on such spurious "science" than to base it on religious beliefs.
Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

Michael Tee

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Going back to your original media "rule" that the media hushes up anything that isn't good for the left, how do you account for the sensational play that Obama's funding flip-flop gets and the almost total silence on the fact that McCain flipped on the same issue himself?  How do you justify the sensational front-page treatment the NYT gave to Judith Miller and her faked articles on WMD in the run-up to the war?  Why didn't they hush Judith Miller?

<< . . . just like the myth of scientific "proof" of genetic components of homosexuality and the absolute infallibility of evolution.  >>

I don't know what you're talking about, both the genetic components of homosexuality and the theory of evolution are THEORIES, evolution a lot more time-tested than the "gay gene" theory, but I've never yet seen a MSM article that referred to either of them as "infallible."  I'd be grateful if you could point me to one such article.

fatman

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I've said before that I don't think that there is a lot of bias in the news so much as there is a lot of sloppiness.  It seems that no organizations "vet" their stories anymore, no fact checking.  Unnamed sources, while nothing new, have gained a lot of credibility which they shouldn't necessarily be entitled to.  News has devolved from serious reporting into trivialities either designed to entertain (Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, Amy Winehouse, et al) or to stir up controversy simply to stir up controversy.  Whether this is a byproduct of capitalist influence through ad revenue, a merging of news organizations into a handful of companies, or simply supply and demand is up for debate as I don't have an answer or solid opinion either way.

Forgive me Pooch but I'm going to hijack your thread for a moment.

I sit on the boards of two local foundations who are very involved in outdoor activities.  One is Hi-Lakers, which backpacks fish fry into high mountain lakes and takes bio samples and helps to compile usage statistics for Washington Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).  The other is the Skagit Fisheries Enhancement group, which monitors water quality, stream conditions, and fish returns for the Skagit River watershed.  I also belong to several other groups: Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, Trout Unlimited, Ducks Unlimited (though I've never been a duck hunter), Wild Turkey Federation.  It would be safe to say that I'm pretty involved in the outdoor activities aspect of my region, it's something that I love and something that brings me a lot of personal fulfillment.  It also brings me into close contact with a lot of environmental controversies and the groups that go along with them.

The town that I live in was a logging town, at least until the drastic reduction of Forest Service logging that took place in the 1990's.  The town didn't die when logging was shut down, but it did take a real hit.  All three sawmills closed and a lot of logging operations shut down altogether.  The Forest Service, which derived most of its income not from Congress (at least then) but from timber sales, took a severe financial hit.  A lot of FS roads, some of which are necessary for fighting wildfires, access to remote trails, hunting areas, etc. are no longer being maintained.  The Forest Service disguises this and says that the roads are decommissioned for wildlife habitat preservation, but the majority of them are shut down simply because of pressure from environmental groups or because the Forest Service no longer has the funding to maintain them.  A good example is a road near here that the FS has shut down for "elk habitat preservation".  This classification bothers me for a couple reasons:  for one, elk weren't native to Western Washington, they were imported from Wyoming at the behest of the Roosevelt Administration in the early 1900's (Roosevelt elk).  Second, there are no elk in the area being designated as "elk habitat", there is and never has been sign of elk in that area, and third, the area (mostly old growth forest and huckleberry thickets) is not conducive to elk populations, which prefer to browse tender greens found in clear cuts, along creek and river bottoms, and rangeland bordered by forest.  And yet, because of federal and local mandates pushed by environmental groups we have a stupid policy that benefits no one.  There were two popular trails towards the end of this road, now it is a seven mile hike to reach the trailhead of the first and 12 miles to the second.  Sure, a dedicated hiker can make it, but the family out for a day trip isn't going to get too far.

And it's not only roads, it's trails as well.  Most of my hiking isn't on trails, but I'm the exception to the rule.  The Forest Service does very little trail maintenance anymore, instead it relies on volunteer groups like the WTA and private individuals to clear trails.  That's fine to a point, but the WTA mostly clears and maintains trails that get the most use, which are the trails that most people want to avoid.  Who wants to hike up to Mt. Si and pass 60 people on the way up?  The Forest Service has also implemented a "pay to play" program which requires a Northwest Forest Pass to park at most trailheads.  I'm generally in agreement with the program, $30 for a year buys a pass ($5 for a one day pass) and the money is spent by the local ranger district.  However, a lot of people aren't fine with the pass, and from my experience the ones that are dead set against it are the same people whose proposals and lawsuits cut the FS budget and necessitated the need for an additional funding source.  Now there is a bill to do away with it altogether.  In a similar situation, the same people squawking about forest fires raging out of control are also the same ones that lobbied to get the roads shut down, the roads that would allow fire crews closer access to the fire.  Fighting fires with helicopters is marginally effective and extremely expensive.

Bear with me here, I know that this is rambling a lot and probably incoherent, but I really do have a point...somewhere.

The point is that there needs to be a balance between extraction and preservation.  I'm not for logging the last stick of old growth, and I'm not for pushing roads everywhere.  But I'm also not for a total logging shutdown and road decommissions.  Everytime the FS wants to have a timber sale, there are immediately 5 lawsuits seeking an injunction.  The FS rarely offers timber sales anymore because the legal fights and hassles aren't worth it.  I personally liked the Bush forest plan, I thought that it was comprehensive and an improvement over the earlier Clinton plan, which stressed road decommission and timber preservation.  But immediately after it was released, the lawsuits started flying.  The plan wasn't without faults, but rather than the two opposing views working the issue out lawsuits were filed.  And don't think this is solely related to Bush, Clinton had a lot of environmental opposition to his plan when the groups didn't think that it went far enough.  In the meantime, Canadian imports (with far less stringent environmental and ecological regulations) are killing the timber industry in the US.  Weyerhauser is about to undergo a major restructure to turn the company into an REIT, which pretty much all commercial timber holders are now.  You can damn near guarantee less access to private timberlands in the future.

No one thinks clearcuts are pretty, and they are capable of producing environmental disasters from erosion and stream degradation, but they also increase the population of a number of wildlife species, particularly deer, elk, and bear.  Environmental groups do need to be part of the process when it comes to resource management, they are a powerful and well funded lobby, and some of their views and concerns are legitimate.  But they shouldn't be hijacking the discussion and cutting their own throats with silly policies (like shutting down roads to protect habitat for an animal that doesn't live there).  In this time of an obesity epidemic and kids who only exercise their thumbs by playing Halo and Guitar Hero, more should be done to improve access to outdoor recreation, and to promote outdoor recreation in general, especially to young people.  I know from experience that a love of the outdoors is a lifetime relationship, whether it's hunting, fishing, backpacking, camping, mountain biking, skiing, whatever.  There's more to life than staring at a TV screen or computer monitor all weekend.

The other hijack point that I wanted to make was on the whole "gay genetics" issue.  I'll admit that I'm curious to know the source of "gayness", but I don't think that as a whole it is either relevant or important.  Even if it is a choice, so what?  It's not illegal, it's not hurting anyone (so long as it's consensual obviously) and I don't think that the population of the world is going to convert to gay and die out.  The whole idea that it is important is based on the notion that as a gay community we should be making accomodations to those who find it immoral, why else would choice even be an issue?  I look at it as being part of who I am (though not the definition of myself), like being left handed or liking Johnny Cash.  There are people in the world who hate left handed people and hate Johnny Cash, they're entitled to their views and I generally respect them so long as they don't impose on my happiness or my ability to have a loving relationship with a consenting, non-related adult (I threw that in there just for you Plane  ;) ).  I just wanted to say that I find the whole issue of "gay choice" to be irrelevant and lacking in importance.

There, my rant is done and I've probably just ruined your thread Pooch, but I'm happy.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2008, 01:41:03 PM by fatman »

Xavier_Onassis

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I can agree with fatman on this. If someone is gay, it hardly matters whether they were created that way or simply decided that they prefer the lifestyle. If you were born in China, you would grow up speaking Chinese. Perhaps at some later date you learned English or some other language, and came to prefer the lifestyle related to that language. Would it be somehow "unnatural" to do this?

Why should it make any difference?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Calling in the Climate Police
-----------------------------------------

Former UN sec-gen Annan calls for 'climate justice' 
 
Former UN secretary general Kofi Annan on Tuesday called for 'climate justice', saying that it was polluters who should pay for the effects of climate change, and not the poorest and most vulnerable.
He said funding should be made available to help disadvantaged communities adapt to the effects of global warming as he urged for the international community to focus on adaptation measures.

"We must have climate justice. As an international community, we must recognise that the polluter must pay and not the poor and vulnerable," said Annan at the first high-level meeting of his new humanitarian forum.

During the two-day conference, the Global Humanitarian Forum brings together luminaries from the worlds of politics, business, diplomacy and development to discuss how best to adapt to climate change -- the issue that Annan has called "one of the most significant humanitarian challenges of our time".

Annan noted that communities needed to be "empowered" with the knowledge and tools to deal with the worst effects of climate change.

"We cannot allow the extra cost of adapting to climate change to be siphoned off from the ongoing poverty challenge. We should act immediately to provide them with additional funding and appropriate technical assistance," he said.

Such assistance included providing technologies on weather warnings; supplying farmers with seeds and fertilizers that were adapted to the changing climate, and ensuring that families had insurance for their homes.


 
411....Climate Justice Patrol, please
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Fatman has an excellent point, in that being gay is not in and of itself in any way wrong, so even if it's a matter of choice, it's not relevant to gay rights issues.  However, genetic research in and of itself is the new scientific frontier and the research on the connections between genes and gayness, genes and intelligence, genes and sense of humour or any other human quality is just plain fascinating and will always attract a high level of interest in the general community.

sirs

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Fatman has an excellent point, in that being gay is not in and of itself in any way wrong, so even if it's a matter of choice, it's not relevant to gay rights issues.

And you and Fat are completely within your rights to hold such an opinion.  You won't mind if those of us with a spiritual walk with our God, of having a different opinion?  We thank you in advance[/quote]
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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<<You won't mind if those of us with a spiritual walk with our God, of having a different opinion? >>

Have any opinion you like as long as you don't infringe on my rights or the fatman's or anyone else's.  Believe whatever stupid nonsensical crap you like, but don't legislate your beliefs onto the conduct of others.  You were born into a free country, so just leave it that way, OK?

fatman

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You won't mind if those of us with a spiritual walk with our God, of having a different opinion?  We thank you in advance

I don't mind if you walk with God at all.  That is between you and God, the same as my homosexuality is between myself and God.  I hope that you weren't implying that because I'm gay I'm not spiritual?  Although I have converted to Episcopalian, I still pray the rosary every morning and attend services at least somewhat regularly.  Our theologies differ, but I don't think that anyone has a lock on spirituality and closeness with Him.

Stray Pooch

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Fatman, you are never incoherent and this post was no exception.  As always, your points were open-minded, intelligent and well worth reading.  I thoroughly enjoyed reading this.  You certainly weren't "hijacking" the thread.  Everything you said was both relevent and well stated.  You didn't ruin my thread, you vastly improved it.

I do want to point out that my point with global warming, gay "causes" (which I agree are not necessarily relevent) and other such issues is NOT whether the issues are "right" or "wrong" (a totally different debate) but the blind acceptance by so many of the "science" behind them.  I too love the outdoors.  I got my love as a Scout (having grown up in the city).  It was so different to be wandering through forests instead of the concrete jungle.  I love to hike, camp and just generally commune with nature.  It's getting harder to do so, since my wife has osteoarthritis and degenerative disk disease.  I hate to hike alone.  It's no fun, plus I damn near became a statistic doing that back in my early twenties.  I know how much things have changed over the past thirty five years or so.  There was a lake in Fort Devens that used to be full of crawfish.  The population dwindled from year to year until they disappeared.  I wondered about that until I heard on a news program that acid rain was killing off shellfish.  I do not DIS-believe the idea that global warming may be real and may be killing us.  I just don't blindly accept it.  Similarly, I wouldn't be shocked to find that there is a genetic component to homosexuality.  As MT points out, a whole LOT of stuff is influenced by genetics.  I just don't buy that it has been "proven."  I understand the difference between correlation and causation.

Thanks for your comments, fatman.

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

sirs

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You won't mind if those of us with a spiritual walk with our God, of having a different opinion?  We thank you in advance

I don't mind if you walk with God at all.  That is between you and God, the same as my homosexuality is between myself and God. 

Precisely


I hope that you weren't implying that because I'm gay I'm not spiritual?  

No.  One's walk is their walk.  Whether its spiritual or not.  One's relationship with their god, or "spiritual advisor" is their relationship.  My God has made it clear to me what's right, what's wrong, what's sin, and what isn't.  But that's my walk.  Some folks would call such a walk "delusional", or even bigoted.  Same folks that now are apparently supporting a delusional and bigoted democratic candidate for President.  Go figure


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle