Author Topic: But we need to cover everyone  (Read 2101 times)

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sirs

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But we need to cover everyone
« on: June 26, 2008, 02:53:14 AM »
Canadian Health Care We So Envy Lies In Ruins, Its Architect Admits
 
BY DAVID GRATZER
Posted 6/25/2008


As this presidential campaign continues, the candidates' comments about health care will continue to include stories of their own experiences and anecdotes of people across the country: the uninsured woman in Ohio, the diabetic in Detroit, the overworked doctor in Orlando, to name a few.

But no one will mention Claude Castonguay ? perhaps not surprising because this statesman isn't an American and hasn't held office in over three decades.

Castonguay's evolving view of Canadian health care, however, should weigh heavily on how the candidates think about the issue in this country.

Back in the 1960s, Castonguay chaired a Canadian government committee studying health reform and recommended that his home province of Quebec ? then the largest and most affluent in the country ? adopt government-administered health care, covering all citizens through tax levies.

The government followed his advice, leading to his modern-day moniker: "the father of Quebec medicare." Even this title seems modest; Castonguay's work triggered a domino effect across the country, until eventually his ideas were implemented from coast to coast.

Four decades later, as the chairman of a government committee reviewing Quebec health care this year, Castonguay concluded that the system is in "crisis."

"We thought we could resolve the system's problems by rationing services or injecting massive amounts of new money into it," says Castonguay. But now he prescribes a radical overhaul: "We are proposing to give a greater role to the private sector so that people can exercise freedom of choice."

Castonguay advocates contracting out services to the private sector, going so far as suggesting that public hospitals rent space during off-hours to entrepreneurial doctors. He supports co-pays for patients who want to see physicians. Castonguay, the man who championed public health insurance in Canada, now urges for the legalization of private health insurance.

In America, these ideas may not sound shocking. But in Canada, where the private sector has been shunned for decades, these are extraordinary views, especially coming from Castonguay. It's as if John Maynard Keynes, resting on his British death bed in 1946, had declared that his faith in government interventionism was misplaced.

What would drive a man like Castonguay to reconsider his long-held beliefs? Try a health care system so overburdened that hundreds of thousands in need of medical attention wait for care, any care; a system where people in towns like Norwalk, Ontario, participate in lotteries to win appointments with the local family doctor.

Years ago, Canadians touted their health care system as the best in the world; today, Canadian health care stands in ruinous shape.

Sick with ovarian cancer, Sylvia de Vires, an Ontario woman afflicted with a 13-inch, fluid-filled tumor weighing 40 pounds, was unable to get timely care in Canada. She crossed the American border to Pontiac, Mich., where a surgeon removed the tumor, estimating she could not have lived longer than a few weeks more.

The Canadian government pays for U.S. medical care in some circumstances, but it declined to do so in de Vires' case for a bureaucratically perfect, but inhumane, reason: She hadn't properly filled out a form. At death's door, de Vires should have done her paperwork better.

De Vires is far from unusual in seeking medical treatment in the U.S. Even Canadian government officials send patients across the border, increasingly looking to American medicine to deal with their overload of patients and chronic shortage of care.

Since the spring of 2006, Ontario's government has sent at least 164 patients to New York and Michigan for neurosurgery emergencies ? defined by the Globe and Mail newspaper as "broken necks, burst aneurysms and other types of bleeding in or around the brain." Other provinces have followed Ontario's example.

Canada isn't the only country facing a government health care crisis. Britain's system, once the postwar inspiration for many Western countries, is similarly plagued. Both countries trail the U.S. in five-year cancer survival rates, transplantation outcomes and other measures.

The problem is that government bureaucrats simply can't centrally plan their way to better health care.

A typical example: The Ministry of Health declared that British patients should get ER care within four hours. The result? At some hospitals, seriously ill patients are kept in ambulances for hours so as not to run afoul of the regulation; at other hospitals, patients are admitted to inappropriate wards.

Declarations can't solve staffing shortages and the other rationing of care that occurs in government-run systems.

Polls show Americans are desperately unhappy with their system and a government solution grows in popularity. Neither Sen. Obama nor Sen. McCain is explicitly pushing for single-payer health care, as the Canadian system is known in America.

"I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer health care program," Obama said back in the 1990s. Last year, Obama told the New Yorker that "if you're starting from scratch, then a single-payer system probably makes sense."

As for the Republicans, simply criticizing Democratic health care proposals will not suffice ? it's not 1994 anymore. And, while McCain's health care proposals hold promise of putting families in charge of their health care and perhaps even taming costs, McCain, at least so far, doesn't seem terribly interested in discussing health care on the campaign trail.

However the candidates choose to proceed, Americans should know that one of the founding fathers of Canada's government-run health care system has turned against his own creation. If Claude Castonguay is abandoning ship, why should Americans bother climbing on board?



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 04:29:21 AM »
Coming Soon: Not-So-NICE Health Care?
 
BY SALLY C. PIPES
Posted 6/25/2008


A British court just ruled that the U.K. government unfairly denied anti-dementia drugs to Alzheimer's patients. The government's reason for refusing to cover the drugs? Money. Government scrooges didn't want to foot the bill.

This kind of penny-pinching happens all too often in Britain, thanks to the National Institute for Health and Clinical Effectiveness, or NICE, the agency that determines which treatments get covered by the British health care system.

If some congressional lawmakers get their way, the United States soon will have a similar agency. And it too will deny vital treatment options.

The U.S. Senate is considering legislation to create a Comparative Effectiveness Research Institute under Medicare.

Like NICE, the new agency would conduct studies on the relative effectiveness of various medical treatments, analyzing how different options stack up against one another.

In theory, this research could provide doctors with more complete information when deciding which treatment to recommend. But in practice, the agency's findings would likely be used by Congress to lower the government's health care spending.

By generating studies that show that older, cheaper drugs are just as effective as newer cures, cost-conscious lawmakers could rationalize not covering expensive cutting-edge medicines under Medicare, Medicaid and other publicly funded programs.

Sound far-fetched? This is precisely what happens time and again in the U.K.

Earlier this year, for example, NICE failed to approve the arthritis drug abatacept. Even though it is one of the only drugs clinically proven to improve severe rheumatoid arthritis, NICE decided that "abatacept would not be a cost-effective use of NHS (National Health Service) resources."

Just one month before that ruling, NICE made a similar decision about the lung cancer drug Tarceva.

Despite numerous studies showing that the drug significantly prolongs the life of cancer patients ? and the unanimous endorsement of lung cancer specialists throughout the U.K. ? NICE determined that the drug was too expensive to cover. England is currently one of only three countries in Western Europe to deny their citizens access to Tarceva.

Comparative effectiveness research is so easily misused because it looks only at the "average" patient. By focusing on which drugs, on average, are cheapest and most effective, comparative effectiveness research can overlook important factors like age, race, gender and lifestyle.

So even though a patient's doctor might decide that a drug like Tarceva is the best treatment given the particular needs of his patient, the government could refuse to cover the drug simply because it isn't cost-effective for the "average" patient.

It's exactly these kinds of tactics that Britain's Court of Appeal recently judged to be "procedurally unfair" when it overturned NICE's decision to deny Alzheimer's patients access to several anti-dementia drugs.

The legislation now under consideration in Congress could go a long way toward helping American doctors and patients make informed health care decisions.

Toward that end, it's crucial that any American agency conducting comparative effectiveness research consider what's best for individual patients instead of looking for cheap, one-size-fits-all cures.

The agency should also be free from political influence. Just as importantly, its recommendations should be nonbinding. In other words, the research should be used to empower doctors and patients ? not politicians, bureaucrats and budget analysts.

Otherwise, the poor, the elderly and others receiving government medical care would be subjected to the same kind of treatment we've seen in the U.K.


Article
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 02:29:46 PM »
but how different is this from HMO`s?
long lines ,restricted medical care
sounds the same to me

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2008, 02:54:04 PM »
The difference being who's paying for it, and that lines/waiting periods aren't anywhere as long, as they are under UHC
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2008, 03:28:10 PM »
I don`t know
it took me 3 weeks to get my eye exam last year from kaiser
and I need to take 2 sick days to see a specialist
and the extra cost to see a doctor after hours has a very strong detering effect.
not many people have 125 to 200 dollars on hand to spend on doctor visits.
that amount is the lowerend cost for a doctor visit w/o copay

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2008, 03:33:49 PM »
So basically, you can take those #'s and double them under UHC, and take solace into knowing someone else is going to pay for it, even if it's not covered, in which case the facility/hospital gets screwed
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2008, 04:17:41 PM »
not at all
if anything the problem is no one system is perfect and is becoming harmful.
heathcare is so expensive in the U.S. now that businesses are starting to require people to not smoke
which in itself does not seem a bad idea,but it can open the door to how much can a job run your life.
we really shouldn`t be thinking one system works and the other is useless.
we should be focusing what are the problems and trying to fix it.
and the problem is cost and health lifestyles
when I say health lifestyles
I mean medicine need to push more preventive measure
ex. no sickdays means no doctors visits
business see sickdays as a waste of money.
but without sickdays employees will show up to work sick .
I know, I`ve seen alot of flu outbreaks at work.
I very much doubt this is better than paying for somebodies sick day.
one of the problems in canada is a much too high a expectation to free healthcare
it not that all the people can`t be covered.it`s that way too many little things are covered.
much of these things can be addressed at the routine check up
but the pattern of the hyperchondriact is too common with uhc
ex. france
for a country that says thier healthy,they sure take alot of pills.





sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »
There's never going to be a perfect system, Kimba, and I don't think anyone is arguing that, or trying to alaim the current American system is.  The arguement is, as bad as we might consider the current system here in America, as demonstrated in example after example after example, UHC is NOT the fix to it.

So, how do we fix the problems of the current system?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2008, 04:44:43 PM »
well
that`s the problem since i never went to school in canada
I don`t know if their a mandatory health classes there to cut down on preventable illnesses.
but that`s also a problem in the U.S.
the health Idea`s I hear here ,makes me want to leave the room.

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2008, 04:53:41 PM »
Yea, when I hear about the pluses & perks of UHC, and knowing how completely upside down that is to our current system under medicare, and folks thinking that the Fed *cough...Katrina*, would do better, makes me want to leave the room as well
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2008, 05:06:56 PM »
Health care for everyone is the only way to even START on the problem posed by diseases, injuries and old age.

What we have here in the US costs way too much and covers only a dwindling percentage of the people. It is not good, and it is getting worse and worse.

If we had the best health care in the world, we would outlive everyone else. And we don't.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2008, 05:15:06 PM »
Health care for everyone is the only way to even START on the problem posed by diseases, injuries and old age.

NOT, when it's been shown to be a failure everytime a large nation tries to pull it.  NOT when we already have far to many financial obligations to deal with.  As bad as our system supposedly is, pushing an non-constitutional mandate for UHC would make the problem, exponentially worse

 

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2008, 05:45:28 PM »
uhm
I never once said the U.S. should get UHC
I only said pointed out all the problems here that needs to be address and should be.
thiers a reason people are going to holistic medicine.
it`s cheaper and your don`t get redtape.
I`m betting in the near future the new health problems is immune systems.
all these over the counter herbal immune boosters are gonna screw up our immune system something fearce.

maybe increase cases of arthritis

sirs

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2008, 06:55:55 PM »
And I never once said that our current system is a perfect bed of roses. 
I only said that the alternative of simply scrapping the whole system altogether for the pipedream of wonderfully run UHC has been shown to be quite the polar opposite, and would be exponentially worse than anything we currently have.

So, once again, the focus SHOULD be on what steps can we take to fix the problems of the current system, with the stand-out effort to keep as much of Government out of it as possible
« Last Edit: June 26, 2008, 07:15:51 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: But we need to cover everyone
« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2008, 07:09:22 PM »
I maybe totally wrong but change the policies on certain drug coverage(with exception of course) as a 1st step
ex. viagra??
it`s not even catagorized as a fertility treatment
as a bloodpressure med I`m cool with
the things that get approved and denied indicated a needed system review