Who Would Jesus Vote For?

[Michael Tee]

Title of article in June 30 New Yorker magazine.  By Frances Fitzgerald.

This is an excellent and very detailed examination of the Evangelical movement in the U.S. today and of a very large and influential faction in that movement that is making its voice heard and separating itself from the old Falwell-Robertson-Dobson et al. axis of Republican activists to demand a more socially conscious platform.  For example, what some of the evangelical leaders refer to as a "consistent pro-life" movement: if you are going to be pro-life in the area of women's reproductive rights, you also need to be pro-life in the war-and-peace issues of the day, i.e., anti-war.  Closely associated with this is the need to be anti-torture.  (Reminding me of the bumper sticker, "Who Would Jesus Torture?")

This article obviously spells big trouble for the Republicreep Party and its agenda of war and torture.  It also entails global poverty relief, associated with debt forgiveness for third-world debtor nations, anti-HIV campaigning, probably at some point touching on safe-sex education and all that THAT entails, and similar but more broadly targeted save-the-environment concerns.

I did not finish the article yet, it's a long one, but it's one of the most positive things I've read in a long time about America.  Apparently Obama has got a good handle on reaching out to these folks, and McSame does not.  (You gotta wonder, what kind of faith would a war criminal have anyway, someone who has probably dropped napalm on women and children.)  I actually felt kinda sorry for McSame, because the writer mentioned how Obama feels natural and comfortable talking about his faith, while McSame obviously does not.  This makes me more sympathetic to McSame, paradoxically, cuz I really don't think that religion has any place in a political campaign.  However, living in the real world, where one's personal faith seems to be something the voters really want to know about, I thought it was hilarious that, as the writer pointed out, McSame's attempts to reach out to the religious right both ended in disaster.

Anyway, I highly recommend the article, especially to anyone who, like me, was feeling increasingly desperate about the direction that America seemed to be taking, and the apparent callousness and incipient fascism of the American people.  They may not be as bad as I had come to believe and the path may be approaching a kind of turning towards a better direction.

[sirs]

 

[The_Professor]

It is heartening that a Jew reads articles about Jesus Christ, the Cornerstone, the Lion of Judah, et al.

It is read in the Word of God that in the last days, many who have rejected the Cornerstone will embrace him.

Perhaps you are beginning on this road...

[Christians4LessGvt]

The title of the thread asks a question.
Here's my opinion/answer.
I feel confident Jesus would vote Republican.
Democrats basically believe in "forced charity".
Yeah lets force the wealthy to help the poor so we can have a "feel good".
But in my opinion Jesus would not approve of "forced charity"
In fact he would probably cringe at such a fraud.
Charity that is not from the heart is not charity at all.
Plus it's a form of "passing the buck". Oh let Bill Gates do it, it's easier for him to do it than me. Oh really?
Passing the buck allows many to "feel good" without lifting a finger.
Yeah I'll vote for Obama so he puts a gun to Boone Pickens head and forces Boone to carry the burden.
Pretending to be charitable but the real reason you give is you have a gun to your head forcing the "giving" is a joke!
Of course the Left will speak about war, but many of the wars in US history were started or expanded by Democrats.
Plus there have been more people/babies killed by abortion than any wars Republicans can be tied to.
In fact there have been almost 48 millions babies killed since 1973, more than all US deaths in wars since the country began.
I doubt Jesus would approve.

[Michael Tee]

<<It is heartening that a Jew reads articles about Jesus Christ, the Cornerstone, the Lion of Judah, et al.

<<It is read in the Word of God that in the last days, many who have rejected the Cornerstone will embrace him.

<<Perhaps you are beginning on this road...>>

Professor, with all due respect, I don't think you understand the relationship of the Jews to God.  We have a covenant with the Lord which is sealed in each generation by the circumcision of every male Jew, even an atheist bastard like me.  That covenant is that the Lord is our God and we are His people.

Probably you have heard the phrase "The Lord thy God is a jealous God."  This means that every Jew since Abraham is bound by a sacred covenant to worship the Lord God and nobody else.  NOBODY else.  Which means no sons and no daughters, no nieces and no nephews.  For someone like me to start to worship another being as of Divine origin - - say Jesus Christ, the so-called Son of God - - would be the worst fucking blasphemy I could ever commit.  God will put up with a lot of bullshit from me, my atheism, my eating pork and bacon, my not going to visit Israel, etc., but one thing He would NOT put up with and that would be for me to worship a false God like Jesus.

For people like you to worship Jesus is no big deal.  You don't have a Covenant with God, you're not circumcised, and as far as I can see, God wouldn't give a shit what you worshiped.  You could worship a fucking Snake and He probably wouldn't give a shit.  What the hell's the difference, you're not His people anyway.  He gives you dominion over the whole fucking earth and He gives the Jews shit, He gives them the fucking Holocaust.   God probably loves you like He would love all of His creations, but He must love you in a different way.  So go ahead, worship Jesus, worship snakes, worship idols, nothing will happen to you (at least as far as I can see, obviously I can't speak for God) and considering what your ancestors must have worshiped before they found Jesus, Jesus is probably some kind of huge improvement for you.  I've got absolutely nothing against the worship of Jesus or his mother as long as it's not done by Jews. 

But please, PLEASE, don't suggest that I as a Jew am going to "find Jesus."  You can bet your ass that would be the worst "find" I could ever make in my whole life, if there really is a God.  Up until now, I figure God is more or less satisfied with me, I'm not the greatest guy He ever created but I'm certainly a long, long way from the worst.  And there are plenty of Jews that are real bastards, that oppress the Arabs, that bleed the poor, that torture their prisoners, that turn a blind eye, so I sure as hell can't see myself as some kind of prime candidate for the wrath of God.  A lot of other people are going to have to reap the whirlwind before God turns His attention to me and my pitiful little shortcomings.  All that could change in a hurry if I suddenly betrayed my Covenant and started to worship some fake God like Jesus.  Some things God does not fuck around with, or at least that's how I see it.

[Plane]

What would a Messiah look like to you?

[Michael Tee]

<<What would a Messiah look like to you?>>

He could look like Noam Chomsky.  Or Woody Allen.  Or Albert Einstein.  Or the late Izzy Stone.  An  American Jewish intellectual, maybe a Professor from a good Midwestern university.  Or Columbia.  Or my late Uncle Lew, a pipe-smoking family doctor from Detroit with an interest in Middle Eastern archaeology.  It could even be Mr. Natural.  That would be hilarious.  Mr. Natural is real, Mr. Natural is Jewish (who woulda thunk?)  and Mr. Natural is the Messiah.  I dunno.  Could be a long time coming, though.  Probably not in MY lifetime.  Maybe not in the next ten thousand years.

[BT]

why would an atheist care what God thinks?

[Plane]

<<What would a Messiah look like to you?>>

He could look like Noam Chomsky.  Or Woody Allen.  Or Albert Einstein.  Or the late Izzy Stone.  An  American Jewish intellectual, maybe a Professor from a good Midwestern university.  Or Columbia.  Or my late Uncle Lew, a pipe-smoking family doctor from Detroit with an interest in Middle Eastern archaeology.  It could even be Mr. Natural.  That would be hilarious.  Mr. Natural is real, Mr. Natural is Jewish (who woulda thunk?)  and Mr. Natural is the Messiah.  I dunno.  Could be a long time coming, though.  Probably not in MY lifetime.  Maybe not in the next ten thousand years.

What prevents Jesus from being accepted?

[Michael Tee]

<<What prevents Jesus from being accepted?>>

The historical record.  The Messiah is to usher in a time of peace, love and reconciliation and the universal love of man for God.  Jesus Christ ushered in an era of two thousand years of bloodshed, torture, war and the deliberate infliction of horrific violence on man by man on a scale that the world has never before seen.  THAT'S a Messiah?  Please.

[Michael Tee]

<<why would an atheist care what God thinks?>>

Who the hell knows if there's really a God or not?

[Michael Tee]

<<But in my opinion Jesus would not approve of "forced charity"
<<In fact he would probably cringe at such a fraud.
<<Charity that is not from the heart is not charity at all.>>

I think Jesus would cringe at people who don't give a shit what happens to the poor.  Republicans who think the worse of two evils is that somebody be "forced" (through taxes voted democratically by the majority of the population) to give up more money than he or she is willing to part with for helping others and that it's not nearly so bad that poor people and their children go without, rather than "forcing" others to part with their wealth.  Did I say "cringe?"  Jesus would fucking VOMIT.

I'll tell ya something else that Jesus would "cringe" at - - he'd cringe that someone who claims to be his follower would start a war against a country that never attacked him, using shoddy "intelligence" reports that most of the world saw through immediately as justification, that authorized torture, that authorized JDAMS and white phosphorous on civilian populations and that ran a vast system of secret prisons and torture chambers all over the world.  THAT'S what Jesus would "cringe" at, not some greedy little rich schmuck being "forced" by the democratic vote of his community to contribute the same share as everyone else in his position to the common good.

[BT]

Who the hell knows if there's really a God or not?

Wouldn't that make you an agnostic?

[BT]

through taxes voted democratically by the majority of the population

Not true. Taxes are appropriated by congressional representatives. It's more a budget numbers thing than a referendum.

[Michael Tee]

<<Wouldn't that make you an agnostic?>>

I'm like an alternating current - - sometimes I think, "there's no fucking way," and sometimes it's "who the fuck knows?"  I don't know why I like to call myself an atheist bastard, except that it kind of appeals to my sense of humour, whereas "agnostic" sounds more like a humourless, self-referential prick.