Author Topic: Time tables  (Read 14876 times)

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sirs

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Time tables
« on: July 09, 2008, 07:20:19 PM »
I've been very up front in indicating any timetable for moderate to massive pullouts, needs to be made from the ground level in Iraq and not some arbitrary # from DC.  Bush has been very consistent in his support about this, and it appears that the Iraqi government is quickly coming to that point, sooner rather than later.  When they indicate that they're ready, and have requested we start moving out, then we indeed need to start moving out.......big time

If Bush is not supportive of this, then we're going to have a problem, since it would be seen by me as DC trying to pull the strings, and not the commanders on the ground and the Iraqi Government, which the original position has always been about.  Am I wrong Ami?  Bt?  Pooch?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2008, 07:25:36 PM »
Quote
When they indicate that they're ready, and have requested we start moving out, then we indeed need to start moving out.......big time

The key is an orderly withdrawal. And that will happen on the next Presidents watch even if they asked us to pull out tomorrow.


sirs

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2008, 07:31:13 PM »
So, how do we define orderly?  Is Obama's rhetoric of taking 2 divisions a month for 16 months "orderly"?  If so, he would have hit a political homerun, as he can claim he was going to end this war, even though the Bush plan & surge is what led to the nearing point of where we can start drawing troops down significantly.

How fortuitous for Obama
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2008, 07:32:50 PM »
The key is an orderly withdrawal. And that will happen on the next Presidents watch even if they asked us to pull out tomorrow.

I think the quickest we could pull out would be like 6 months. More than likely, though, any type of orderly pullout would take 18 months or so.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2008, 07:42:17 PM »
So, how do we define orderly?  Is Obama's rhetoric of taking 2 divisions a month for 16 months "orderly"?  If so, he would have hit a political homerun, as he can claim he was going to end this war, even though the Bush plan & surge is what led to the nearing point of where we can start drawing troops down significantly.

How fortuitous for Obama


The other side of the coin is McCain has been advocating the surge since day one. And the surge is what will allow the draw down, so he scores points too.

If no matter who is elected two things could happen. An orderlywithdrawal allowing the Iraqi's to fill the vacuum or a civil war breaks out and we have a helicopters on the embassy scenario once again. No matter how much Mikey might wish this , Obama doesn't want that happening on his watch. My guess is he would be more cautious than McCain in withdrawing troops.






sirs

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2008, 07:54:32 PM »
So......if Iraq has said they're ready, and would like to have us start moving our folks out, what justifiable reason would Bush and his administration have in not supporting such?  That's the just of what I seem to be hearing of.  Though I admit that's coming thru the prism of the MSM, so I have to take that with a grain of salt.

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2008, 08:24:25 PM »
Quote
So......if Iraq has said they're ready, and would like to have us start moving our folks out, what justifiable reason would Bush and his administration have in not supporting such?  That's the just of what I seem to be hearing of.  Though I admit that's coming thru the prism of the MSM, so I have to take that with a grain of salt.

Has Iraq officially requested our withdrawal or is Maliki playing poker in negotiating the post UN Mandate security agreement?

A quick read shows dissent within his party and his inner circle.


sirs

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2008, 11:03:57 PM »
So, how do we define orderly?  Is Obama's rhetoric of taking 2 divisions a month for 16 months "orderly"?  If so, he would have hit a political homerun, as he can claim he was going to end this war, even though the Bush plan & surge is what led to the nearing point of where we can start drawing troops down significantly.  How fortuitous for Obama

The other side of the coin is McCain has been advocating the surge since day one. And the surge is what will allow the draw down, so he scores points too.

Yea....BUT....that won't be the MSM spin.  If we call down troops to the point that we're largely out of there by the end of 16months, NO ONE will be referencing the surge, and all the efforts it took prior to that point, that made it possible.  They will be singing the praises of Obama and his "promise to end this war"


If no matter who is elected two things could happen. An orderlywithdrawal allowing the Iraqi's to fill the vacuum or a civil war breaks out and we have a helicopters on the embassy scenario once again. No matter how much Mikey might wish this , Obama doesn't want that happening on his watch. My guess is he would be more cautious than McCain in withdrawing troops.

I actually don't doubt that.  The worse thing for a President Obama, is for the literal blowing up of Iraq into an all out civil war, if he were to start pulling mass amount of troops prematurely.  He'd be lucky to get 1 term


Has Iraq officially requested our withdrawal or is Maliki playing poker in negotiating the post UN Mandate security agreement?  A quick read shows dissent within his party and his inner circle.

I've never referenced anything specific, as I've been saying all along here that the inferrence is that we're simply drawing closer to such a request, by way of the MSM's reports.  My question still stands though, that if a request is offically made, what could possibly justify this adminstration's insistance that we defer/deflect said request?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2008, 11:26:12 PM »
Quote
My question still stands though, that if a request is offically made, what could possibly justify this adminstration's insistance that we defer/deflect said request?

If the folks on the scene say the Iraqi's aren't ready to take over then Bush would be consistent in thinking the mission was not complete and dragging his feet on withdrawal no matter the political pressure is the right thing to do.

Look.

The MSM is going to damn Bush either way. Obama is their guy. It's his election to lose. McCain will only win if the country's perception of Obama is that he is a wild card, an unknown and too big of a risk to elect. Then they will elect McCain as a placeholder.

sirs

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2008, 12:34:22 PM »
Thanks for the feedback Bt, and Ami.  Much appreciated
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2008, 02:54:05 PM »
SIRS of course we will be drawing down.

Armies drawn down as the mission draws closer to completion.

Basically we have won. The surge worked.

General Petraeus, the guy Democrats last year were
insinuating was a liar and called "General BeTrayUs" is a hero.

Obviously there is still much work to be done, but we wont need 120K troops anymore.

In Iraq on July 4th, 1,215 U.S. servicemen and women re-enlisted in
the largest re-enlistment ceremony ever.

The Iraqi army we trained and said would be ready is getting stronger.
The Iraqi army is starting to take the lead in many operations.
Most of Iraq's provinces are now under the remit of an Iraqi-led command centre.

We just shipped 550 tons of Yellowcake nuclear bomb material out of Iraq.

Iraq's electricity production jumped more than 10 percent in roughly the first six months of 2008.
Other reconconstruction efforts will continue and increase as Iraq becomes more peaceful.

The United Arab Emirates just announced that it was forgiving almost $7 billion
of debt owed by Baghdad -- an impressive vote of confidence from a fellow Arab state.
The first signs of the end of Iraqi isolation within the Arab world. The Emirates are planning
to send a new ambassador to Baghdad, a decision aimed at mitigating Iraqi diplomatic isolation
on the part of the Arab world.

Other positive signs are coming from the Arab community, including the upcoming visits
of King Abdullah of Jordan (the first Arab head of state to set foot again in Iraq after
the beginning of the war, in March of 2003) and of Turkish prime minister Erdogan.
Saudi Arabia and Bahrain have also been promising for some time to reestablish their
diplomatic representation.

No matter who was President we would be withdrawing a great number of troops over the next 4 years.

The difference is now we will be withdrawing as a winner!

Whoever the next President is, he will be lucky that President Bush after doing
most of the dirty work will be handing off a democratic Iraq well on the way to reaching it's potential.




« Last Edit: July 10, 2008, 02:56:36 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
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Stray Pooch

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2008, 02:35:34 AM »
It's real simple from where I stand.  Iraq was given its sovereignty years ago.  Prior to that time we were an invading and then occupying force, with the mission of toppling the last regime and setting up a democratic government to replace it.  After that time we were in a support role, helping to establish and maintain stability and train the Iraqi forces to take up that role themselves.  The first mission was easy.  It was accomplished in short time with little cost.   The second was the bear.  It took several years and tons of treasure (not to mention thousands of American troops - many of who lost their lives).  Assuming that the request from Iraq is real (and it would be tough not to at least acknowledge that the request is made) a third phase has commenced.  This is the time to withdraw our forces, relinquish security responsibility to the Iraqi government, and negotiate (if appropriate) any residual presence in the country. 

Assuming the Iraqi request is real, the time has come to recover or redeploy our forces in Iraq and allow history to take its course.

Oh, for a muse of fire, that would ascend the brightest heaven of invention . . .

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2008, 03:02:05 AM »
If the request is real...

Brassmask

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2008, 03:35:43 AM »
If I remember right, Maliki was showing us the door before the so-called "surge" ever got news coverage.

BT

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Re: Time tables
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2008, 04:07:10 AM »
It was one of the higher ups in the govt. I think this is just posturing.