Why Obama won't want to debate McCain much

[Plane]

<<Then how is that "staying true to who he is"?>>

It's a subjective feeling.  Sorta like hippies in the Sixties trying to get away from their "materialistic"  or "plastic" home environments and getting back to the land.

Maybe "being true to who he is" isn't the best way to put it.  Maybe it's more like "getting back to who you were supposed to be."

Maybe he feels, or a lot of urban, up-scale blacks feel, they sacrificed too much of their "selves" to get to where they are now and they need to get back to their roots.

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It seems simpler than this , he is driven by ambition and is performing triangulation.

[Michael Tee]

<<It seems simpler than this , he is driven by ambition and is performing triangulation.>>

That explains the tactic, and I agree with that.  You are right.  But we were really talking about why he might be disadvantaged by McSame, and I felt he might be pulled into talking the talk of the less assimilated blacks.  Ami asked why, since he had never been raised in the ghetto.  What I was explaining was not the tactic of triangulation, but the emotional pulls that might make Obama WANT to revert somewhat to a language and manner of expression that could make a lot of whites uneasy.

Even if Obama has a relatively simple tactic he is still a very complex man.  He's white AND he's black, he's got white AND black followers to please, he's American and he's Kenyan and Indonesian.  This is a very complex individual and I was talking more about where his comfort zone is than about his campaign tactics.

[Plane]

<<It seems simpler than this , he is driven by ambition and is performing triangulation.>>

That explains the tactic, and I agree with that.  You are right.  But we were really talking about why he might be disadvantaged by McSame, and I felt he might be pulled into talking the talk of the less assimilated blacks.  Ami asked why, since he had never been raised in the ghetto.  What I was explaining was not the tactic of triangulation, but the emotional pulls that might make Obama WANT to revert somewhat to a language and manner of expression that could make a lot of whites uneasy.

Even if Obama has a relatively simple tactic he is still a very complex man.  He's white AND he's black, he's got white AND black followers to please, he's American and he's Kenyan and Indonesian.  This is a very complex individual and I was talking more about where his comfort zone is than about his campaign tactics.

AS voters should we be concerned whith what he really is or is his projected image suffecient?

Who really knows what he is like ?

Most of us began to get aqquanted with him quite recently.

[Michael Tee]

<<AS voters should we be concerned whith what he really is or is his projected image suffecient?>>

As a buyer, are you concerned with the merchandise or with its projected image?  As a seller, is Obama more concerned with total disclosure, warts and all, or with projected image?  You and Obama are buyer and seller, with different interests and different viewpoints.

<<Who really knows what he is like ?>>

Who knows what any of them are really like?  Who knows what McCain told his captors?  Who knows what he broadcast for them?  Who knows how many times he called his wife a cunt and a trollop in public?

<<Most of us began to get aqquanted with him quite recently.>>

Most of us got acquainted with JFK in 1956 and there are still revelations coming out about him.  to know who the guy is is an impossible task.  It's like reading the Racing Form and "knowing" which horse is gonna win the race.  You'll never know any of them.  It's not their job to tell you.  It's their job to sell you.

[Plane]

Simply put, inchoate doubts about Obama won't lift McCain to victory; specific attacks may. This afternoon, I called the Arizona senator's current anti-Obama onslaught more harmful than helpful. Today's mismatched pair of Gallup polls may be an early sign that I was wrong--and that McCain won't be cutting back on the swipes any time soon.
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/07/28/poll-position.aspx

[Michael Tee]

<<Simply put, inchoate doubts about Obama won't lift McCain to victory; specific attacks may. This afternoon, I called the Arizona senator's current anti-Obama onslaught more harmful than helpful. Today's mismatched pair of Gallup polls may be an early sign that I was wrong--and that McCain won't be cutting back on the swipes any time soon.>>
http://www.blog.newsweek.com/blogs/stumper/archive/2008/07/28/poll-position.aspx

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Well, thanks, plane.  I read the article you linked to, but I was very surprised to find that it did not even mention one possibly major factor in the results.  Although it spoke of "energized" Republican voters, nowhere did it mention "de-energized" Obama voters.  At this point I don't give a shit if Obama wins or loses and I bet a lot of people who CAN vote (unlike me) will feel the same way.  WHY?  a lot of us feel very disappointed in the gap between Obama's actions and his words.  We realize that there are certain things a candidate has to do or say in order to get elected.  We had a certain tolerance for Obama's attempts to rope in some of the "mindless fascist" or "mindless militarist" voters and say things that would appeal to the moron vote, OK.  But the combination of Pelosi's spineless approach ("Impeachment's off the table,") continued funding for the war by a "Democratic" Congress, and Obama's move from apparent "end the war now" to "move the war to Afghanistan" is very disheartening and disillusioning.

So if anyone wants to explain yesterday's Gallup/USA Today results without mentioning left-of-centre disillusionment with Obama, good luck.  I think that is the main problem Obama now has to face and he'd better do something about it.  To XO, I'd have to say that apparently Obama's base was a lot more about the war than it was about Roe v. Wade.  If the only choice the American public is offered is between New Bush and Bush Lite, they'll go for the real thing.  Why buy an imitation?

[Plane]

The store is all out of Bush.

We can have an old Bush rival equally centrist, or a pretended centrist with a very liberal voteing record.

NO Bush on the menu.

But why arn't there any real rightist canadates ?

Why is a serious leftist putting on a centrist facade?

Getting elected seems to ba about scientific polling , and being guided by the poll result more than any internal compass.

If the Left feels let down , they arn't alone , on the right ,we feel your pain.

[Xavier_Onassis]

But why arn't there any real rightist canadates ?

There is Bob Barr. Perhaps Ron Paul will turn out to be a liar and run as well. Fake rightist candidates get more votes than "real" ones do.

Why is a serious leftist putting on a centrist facade?

Because it will get him more votes. Why do they wear neckties in big cities and take them off when they visit the yokels? Same reason.

Getting elected seems to ba about scientific polling , and being guided by the poll result more than any internal compass.

Getting elected is about doing what you need to do to make voters like you more than the other guy, or even better, to hate the other guy more.

If the Left feels let down , they arn't alone , on the right ,we feel your pain.

[Plane]

Getting elected is about doing what you need to do to make voters like you more than the other guy, or even better, to hate the other guy more.

Ok, but the wires are showing!

[Michael Tee]

<<Why is a serious leftist putting on a centrist facade?>>

Serious leftist?  Do you see any serious leftist?  I don't see any serious leftist.

[Plane]

<<Why is a serious leftist putting on a centrist facade?>>

Serious leftist?  Do you see any serious leftist?  I don't see any serious leftist.

You might have better in the Canadian Legislature , but as far as I know there is no US Senator more leftist than B.H.O.

Thus his run so far to the right in order to find the center, he looks like a phony as he feels his way to the top of the bell curve , but that seems to be where the votes are.

So if his pretense gets him elected , will he still pretend to be centrist once elected?

[Plane]

Could John McCain benefit from Barack Obama's much-publicized foreign trip? Several observations from the just-completed USA Today/Gallup poll suggest that this is a possibility.

Americans' overall reaction to the trip was muted, as shown in the accompanying results.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/109132/Assessing-Impact-Obamas-Trip.aspx

Not surprisingly, there were highly partisan reactions to the trip. Notably, Democrats are slightly less likely than Republicans to have an opinion on the trip at all.

The slightly higher degree of attention Republicans paid to the trip could in part reflect the fact that Republican leaders -- including McCain himself and, in particular, conservative commentators -- were highly vocal in their efforts to blunt the impact of the trip and were quick to criticize and politicize it, finding fault with Obama for a number of reasons at almost every stop.

The heavy coverage of the trip may have fueled speculation (or reinforced pre-existing attitudes) about news media bias in Obama's favor. A separate set of questions in the weekend poll asked Americans about their views of the news media's coverage of the two major-party candidates. Americans are more than twice as likely to say media coverage of Obama is unfairly positive as to say it is unfairly negative. For McCain, the opposite is true, with many more seeing coverage of him as unfairly negative than as unfairly positive.

[Michael Tee]

<<So if his pretense gets him elected , will he still pretend to be centrist once elected?>>

What would be the point?  Why bother to be President if he can't do it HIS way?  I just hope you're right, that he's leftist on the inside and rightist on the outside, but really I can't see it.  I gotta tell you I am not exactly thrilled when an "antiwar" candidate suddenly morphs into someone who just wants to move the war from Iraq to Afghanistan.  I think the American people deserve a straight-up choice, not two clowns each trying to impersonate the same composite person.

[Plane]

<<So if his pretense gets him elected , will he still pretend to be centrist once elected?>>

What would be the point?  Why bother to be President if he can't do it HIS way?  I just hope you're right, that he's leftist on the inside and rightist on the outside, but really I can't see it.  I gotta tell you I am not exactly thrilled when an "antiwar" candidate suddenly morphs into someone who just wants to move the war from Iraq to Afghanistan.  I think the American people deserve a straight-up choice, not two clowns each trying to impersonate the same composite person.

You hope he is a phony?

Is B.H.O. harvesting a liberal vote he doesn't deserve or a centrist vote he doesn't deserve?

Say hello to the new Boss there is a reason he is the same as the old boss , he wants to be elected the same way , then reelected again the same way.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Obama seems like a leftist to some people because ANYONE seems like a leftist to them. It has always been the strategy of the reactionary conservatives to paint everyone as leftists. Their core belief is that government is inherently evil and incapable of solving any problems, except those caused by foreigners: the latter can be resolved with guns and bombs.

Strangely, they wish to be elected to office, even though they believe that government can do nothing useful. I suppose the plan is to prevent anyone else from even trying.

The last several days have been deeply strange: first, McCain, a geezer so antiquated that he cannot even use a computer, claims that Obama does not know enough about foreign policy to be president. Curious how this didnlt stop the old fart from endorsing the entirely foreign-policy ignorant Juniorbush twice. Juniorbush's ignorance was such that given a foreign poicy expert like Colin Powell, he not only ignored him, but disgraced him as well.

So Obama goes on a trip. He goes to Israel and makes the appropriate sucking sounds, and everyone likes him. He goes to Berlin and they love him. So what does McCain do? He goes to a German RESTAURANT (why? to impress the hassenpfeffer?) somewhere in Palookaville and says that he'd only go to Germany when (when?) he's elected. Lame beyond belief. Then he arranges an interview in the cheese aisle in some supermarket and pretends to know something about economics.

Obama is right about Afghanistan. That is where Al Qaeda really is, and the Taliban is still around. I doubt that it would take anywhere near the number of troops to eliminate the Taliban, and so far, most Afghanis do not mistrust the US. After all, they have no oil to be suspicious about.

If McCain does get elected, he will have only good old racism to thank. Even as we speak, hacks like Karl Rove are dutifully trying to come up with excuses for how you can say you want change from the absolute WORST president in history and still elect his party without being an overt crossburning, noose-knotting racist.