ANOTHER reason why John Insane won't be debating much with Obama

[hnumpah]

It isn't fair to drop white phosphorus on civilians either.

What, you don't like crispy critters? Guess they shouldn't'a been living in a war zone, the buncha dumbass hicks.

[Michael Tee]

<<What, you don't like crispy critters? Guess they shouldn't'a been living in a war zone, the buncha dumbass hicks.>>

The war zone is thousands of miles from the U.S.A., the dumbass hicks  were people once - - mothers, children, grandparents.  And they roasted to death in their beds in their own homes.  The Americans who killed them travelled a long, long way to burn them alive in phosphorus.

I don't get any sense from any significant portion of the American public that a horrible crime has taken place.  It's just "war" and nobody's to blame for it.  Well of course, Saddam Hussein's to blame for it.  The victims are to blame for the war.  Bush had no choice.  Cheney had no choice.  Saddam made them do what they had to do.  "War" is hell. 

Excuses you wouldn't accept from a teenager who keyed your car are swallowed whole when the consequences are thousands of agonizing fiery deaths.

I guess I just don't get it.  Where is the sense of outrage?  Where is the acountability?

[hnumpah]

the dumbass hicks  were people once

That's the point, moron.

[Michael Tee]

I got it the first time, schmuck.

[Amianthus]

And they roasted to death in their beds in their own homes.  The Americans who killed them travelled a long, long way to burn them alive in phosphorus.

Yeah, and they violated some of the laws of physics to do it as well...

[Michael Tee]

<<Yeah, and they violated some of the laws of physics to do it as well...>>

Those are very serious charges.  Can you back them up?

[Amianthus]

Those are very serious charges.  Can you back them up?

Yup, they somehow got WP to burn skin but not burn clothing. Serious violation of the laws of physics there.

[Michael Tee]

The bodies appeared to have been badly burned by some kind of chemical agent.  A soldier who was in some kind of operations control or command centre during the battle recalls hearing a few radio calls for WP.  Numerous persons at the scene reported seeing the kind of smoke that was typical of WP.  That the clothes were not burned by the phosphorus can be explained in various ways - - the clothes were wholly or partially blasted off the bodies then replaced by survivors for reasons of modesty; the bodies were slick with sweat and the phosphorus worked more effectively on a wet surface; the clothes were either blasted off or also burned but before the photos were taken, the Americans secured the scene and placed unburned clothes over the bodies; the phosphorus was in a cloud or mist and reacted with body sweat to form some kind of compound that burned down to the bone; the weapon used, while still called WP was either a radically modified form of phosphorus or a new compound that will burn on either dry or sweaty skin, but won't burn on fabric.

Whether it was WP or some other chemical agent responsible, those civilian bodies appeared to have died a horrible and agonizing death from something the Americans dropped on them.

[Amianthus]

WP burns at 900 degrees, and produces thermal (not chemical) burns. Clothing burns at lower temperatures than skin. No normal clothing that I know of can survive 900 degree flames. And when WP burns, it does not "explode" and "blast clothing off bodies" (and the clothes were intact, imagine that! Must be specially designed stripper clothing that comes off instantly without tearing...)

[Amianthus]

Oh yeah, WP is not a "mist" - it's a thick, oily substance. Looks like paraffin.

[Xavier_Onassis]

WP burns at 900 degrees, and produces thermal (not chemical) burns. Clothing burns at lower temperatures than skin. No normal clothing that I know of can survive 900 degree flames. And when WP burns, it does not "explode" and "blast clothing off bodies" (and the clothes were intact, imagine that! Must be specially designed stripper clothing that comes off instantly without tearing...)

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So what is your actual theory? That the bodies of already dead people were stripped, burned and then dressed, and this is all for show?

Do you mean to suggest that all WP victims were burned by WPomething similar)  and their clothing was intact and unburned?

What if their clothing was wet? would that not raise the combustion point?
People are likely to be stressed when bombed, and that is likely to make them sweat.

The fact is that many, many more Iraqis have died as a result of this needless war than Saddam ever would have killed. The US government of Juniorbush started this war, and is there largely responsible for the maimings, killings and dislocations of Iraqis.

[Amianthus]

WP burns better in the presence of moisture, producing a hotter flame. So, if they were sweating, it would produce a hotter flame. I also observe that water flashes over to steam at a much lower temperature than 900 degrees, so the clothing would dry nearly instantly. And also, skin is nearly all water (at least 80%) so the clothing would again burn faster than the skin.

I have no theory since no real investigation was done. I just pointed out that the facts as shown on the Italian video do not jive with the physics of WP combustion.

[Michael Tee]

<<WP burns at 900 degrees, and produces thermal (not chemical) burns. Clothing burns at lower temperatures than skin. >>

There were calls for WP and the Army now admits WP was used.  There are probably many ways that WP can be mixed with other substances to maximize its effectiveness as a weapon, each mixture producing some variation in the data that would come out of laboratory experiments on "white phosphorus."

<<No normal clothing that I know of can survive 900 degree flames. >>

There's no evidence that the clothing was subject to 900 degree flames.  Or that it wasn't put on after death.

<<And when WP burns, it does not "explode" and "blast clothing off bodies" >>

Probably not.  But the explosion I referred to was the explosion of the delivery vehicle, which dispersed the WP in the first place.  Unless it was dispersed by a little robot arm that extruded from the shell and then pressed the button on a spray can of WP, while rotating the can 360 degrees.

<<(and the clothes were intact, imagine that! Must be specially designed stripper clothing that comes off instantly without tearing...)>>

Other possibilities of course are that the bodies were dressed after death, or that the WP was dispersed in a mist that easily penetrated fabric, dissolved in surface body sweat and began burning its way into the flesh rather than burning and flaming out on the surface.

<<Oh yeah, WP is not a "mist" - it's a thick, oily substance. Looks like paraffin.>>

Yeah, and water's not a mist, either - - it's a liquid that looks just like vodka, can be poured into and out of containers and will fall straight to the ground if spilled or poured.  Unless you put it in a bottle that can spray it out as a mist.  Or encounter it as a fog.

[Amianthus]

WP does not exist as a "fog", either. If it encounters oxygen, it will burst into flames. Even if the air temperature was too low to cause pyrophoric effects by itself, any simple jarring or disruption (like that caused by the burster charge which disperses the WP) will cause it to ignite. There is a reason why red phosphorus is used in match heads - it doesn't take much disruption to cause it to ignite, and white phosphorus is even more sensitive. If white phosphorus is in a room where the air temperature is too low to cause the pyrophoric effect, just breathing on it (or a fly landing on it, I've done that experiment) will cause it to ignite. Picric acid is another highly sensitive compound; I did the fly experiment with that, too.

Unless, of course, you believe physics and / or chemistry is optional.

[Xavier_Onassis]

I have no theory since no real investigation was done. I just pointed out that the facts as shown on the Italian video do not jive with the physics of WP combustion.
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Then the theory could be that whatever was on the video was something else, perhaps?