ANOTHER reason why John Insane won't be debating much with Obama

[Michael Tee]

<<Thursday, November 10, 2005
<<Nights in White ... Phosphorus
<<Big news in the blogosphere: the use of white phosphorus in Iraq. Frankly, people are pissed.

<<The Courtier has a Ph.D. in biochemistry, in addition to being a military history buff, and I picked his brain a little bit last night. If a combined high explosive/white phosphorus shell were used, some of the phosphorus would be immediately burn anything or anyone flammable. An uncertain portion of the phosphorus would be thrown up into the air, creating a cloud of variable diameter that would depend on the amount of the shell's explosive payload. As the particles of phosphorus cooled, they would settle down to the ground. The range of dispersal would depend on wind direction as well as the size and strength of the shell.>>

http://nikkiverse.net/bac/2005/11/nights-in-white-phosphorus.html
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<<JEFF ENGLEHART: The gases from the warhead of the white phosphorus will disperse in a cloud. And when it makes contact with skin, then it’s absolutely irreversible damage, burning of flesh to the bone. It doesn’t necessarily burn clothes, but it will burn the skin underneath clothes. And this is why protective masks do not help, because it will burn right through the mask, the rubber of the mask. It will manage to get inside your face. If you breathe it, it will blister your throat and your lungs until you suffocate, and then it will burn you from the inside. It basically reacts to skin, oxygen and water. The only way to stop the burning is with wet mud. But at that point, it’s just impossible to stop.
REPORTER: Have you seen the effects of these weapons?
JEFF ENGLEHART: Yes. Burned. Burned bodies. I mean, it burned children, and it burned women. White phosphorus kills indiscriminately. It’s a cloud that will within, in most cases, 150 meters of impact will disperse, and it will burn every human being or animal.
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/11/8/u_s_broadcast_exclusive_fallujah_the
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[Amianthus]

Then the theory could be that whatever was on the video was something else, perhaps?

Or was not caused by the US military at all.

[Amianthus]

As the particles of phosphorus cooled, they would settle down to the ground. The range of dispersal would depend on wind direction as well as the size and strength of the shell.

Great. White phosphorus that is not pyrophoric.

Needs to submit the documentation for a possible Noble Prize. After all, they have apparently found something that scientists studying this element have not seen yet: a stable form of P₄. I bet it doesn't glow green in the dark, either.

[Michael Tee]

Where's your response to this?  Should this guy be submitting for a Nobel too?

<<JEFF ENGLEHART: The gases from the warhead of the white phosphorus will disperse in a cloud. >>

Note he says "gases from the warhead of white phosphorus" and does not say "white phosphorus." 

<<And when it makes contact with skin, then it’s absolutely irreversible damage, burning of flesh to the bone. >>

That's a myth too, huh?  Also worthy of a Nobel Prize submission, or just a myth?

<<It doesn’t necessarily burn clothes, but it will burn the skin underneath clothes. And this is why protective masks do not help, because it will burn right through the mask, the rubber of the mask. It will manage to get inside your face. If you breathe it, it will blister your throat and your lungs until you suffocate, and then it will burn you from the inside. It basically reacts to skin, oxygen and water. >>

Gee, I guess he need some of your chemistry and physics lessons too.  Don't these guys ever learn? 

<<The only way to stop the burning is with wet mud. But at that point, it’s just impossible to stop.>>

MUD, haw haw.  Shows ya how primitive these guys are.  It's the only remedy they know, apart from wet cow dung.

<<REPORTER: Have you seen the effects of these weapons?
<<JEFF ENGLEHART: Yes. Burned. Burned bodies. I mean, it burned children, and it burned women. White phosphorus kills indiscriminately. It’s a cloud that will within, in most cases, 150 meters of impact will disperse, and it will burn every human being or animal.>>

Obviously terrorist propaganda.  Everyone knows WP will burn in the air.  Honest, I've seen it in my high-school chemistry class.  All the scientists in the WORLD couldn't figure out a way to make it NOT burn in the air or disperse as a cloud.  Why it's as laughable a thought as jellied gasoline.

[Plane]

Even the dumbest hick has to know that his solution to boredom and unemployment means participating in killing, torture and massive destruction of an entire society.&nbsp; I'll bet many of them even realize it's all about the oil.&nbsp; You may think you're excusing their bad choices, but you're really patronizing them.&nbsp; I'm sure even in hillbilly society there are plenty of them who can tell right from wrong and would refuse on moral principles to have anything to do with the execution of Bush's criminal plans.&nbsp; No matter how "bored" they might be with Upshur County.
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For centuries, the military has been glorified as a wonderful career. Observe how no one erects statues to electrical engineers, mechanics, plowboys or taco assembly persons.

I agree that there are doubtless many people in Upshur that are aware that the Army is about killing, but surely you are aware that many Americans thought that invading Iraq was to make everyone safer and to spread democracy. Next thing you know, then Ay-rabs will crash one of those planes into the Upshur County Courthouse.

http://www.weevilwonderland.com/weevil.html



http://www.geocities.com/skibbie61/index.html

[Amianthus]

Note he says "gases from the warhead of white phosphorus" and does not say "white phosphorus." 

Then we're not talking about WP burns?

MUD, haw haw.  Shows ya how primitive these guys are.  It's the only remedy they know, apart from wet cow dung.

Anything that will cut it off from gaseous oxygen will work. It's stored in laboratories under kerosene, for example.

[Michael Tee]

<<Then we're not talking about WP burns?>>

I think what we're talking about is burns from a weapon called WP or variations thereof by the troops that might originally have been either white phosphorus or contained white phosphorus.  "WP," whatever its actual chemical composition might have been at the time of the siege of Falluja, was called down by the troops (one version of the story seemed to indicate it might have been decided upon by the guys in the helicopters overhead and radioed down to the ground) released onto many civilians, who died of severe burns.  Whether or not the stuff in the weapons called down by U.S. forces matches up in molecular analysis with what a chemistry teacher would think of as white phosphorus, I have no idea. 

We're talking about civilians who died of burns caused by U.S. troops is the bottom line.

[Amianthus]

We're talking about civilians who died of burns caused by U.S. troops is the bottom line.

We're talking about civilians we were told died of burns caused by US Troops. Just because it was claimed does not make it so.

And US Troops are still issued WP as a part of their normal TOE. WP's chemical composition remains P₄.

[Michael Tee]

<<We're talking about civilians we were told died of burns caused by US Troops. Just because it was claimed does not make it so.>>

I've seen and heard enough reports to convince me.  There are photos of the bodies, there is the soldier's account of hearing the calls for WP during the battle, there are the reports of the independent Iraqi journalist who viewed the scene and there are doctor reports from the hospital.  You can invalidate just about any claims of war crimes with "just because it was claimed does not make it so" but as far as I am concerned, there's more than enough material reported to convince me.  It's an old story how many defenders war criminals have in their own country - - that's what "support the troops" really means.

<<And US Troops are still issued WP as a part of their normal TOE. >>

And why does that not surprise me?  They are war criminals and their commanders are war criminals. 

<<WP's chemical composition remains P4.>>

In that case (according to you) it should be incapable of forming clouds or of burning human skin without burning the overlying clothes.  I don't believe it's simply P4 and nothing else.

[Amianthus]

And why does that not surprise me?  They are war criminals and their commanders are war criminals. 

It's part of the standard TOE for British troops as well. And a number of other NATO countries.

[hnumpah]

It's part of the standard TOE for British troops as well. And a number of other NATO countries.

All war criminals, the damned lot of 'em. If you fight with anything more advanced than clubs and rocks, it's a war crime.

I'd like to see where T has one charge that has held up anywhere showing that the entire American Army, including every officer, is a war criminal. Hey, T, I was a member of that Army at one time. And, sonofabitch, I'm an American, and apparently you can't stand either, the way you can't pass up an opportunity to bad mouth both of them. Which makes me wonder why the fuck you even bother to hang around here in the old U.S. of by-God A, if you hate us so much. I know we have our problems, and I know our government has done a lot to poke the rest of the world in the eye. I've never been one to tell anybody to love it or leave it, but I'm about fed up with your bad mouthing any and everything American, and denigrating our military, especially the dead.

There is a lot I can agree with you about, about Bush and the follyh of the war in Iraq.

Those I cannot agree with you about. Ever. I've been to a lot of countries over the years, including Canada, and I'll tell you right now, with all its problems, there is still nowhere else in the world I would rather live than here. You can call us hillbillies and hicks all you want, I just wish you would go somewhere else to do it. After all, our great-great-grand hillbilles and hicks got rid of the rest of you British troublemakers over 200 years ago.

[BT]

Mikey likes to poke the bear.

No pun intended.

[Xavier_Onassis]

After all, our great-great-grand hillbilles and hicks got rid of the rest of you British troublemakers over 200 years ago.

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MT might be a Canadian, but British seems to be one of the things he clearly isn;t.

Canada as it exists today, it the result of the British trying to get it right on the second try. It took about 175 years and an ample dose of Mohandas Gandhi, but Canada is the better for it.

There is much to be said for a country that isn't crowded, too.

The US is getting too crowded and we are doing nothing about it.

[Amianthus]

MT might be a Canadian, but British seems to be one of the things he clearly isn;t.

Canada as it exists today, it the result of the British trying to get it right on the second try. It took about 175 years and an ample dose of Mohandas Gandhi, but Canada is the better for it.

Canada was a dominion of the British Empire until 1982. Presumably, Mikey was born before 1982.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Presumably, Mikey was born before 1982.

So? That makes him a UK citizen, but not necessarily British.

Can any law or governmental provision make you a Celt or an Ojibwa?