Author Topic: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?  (Read 13152 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #30 on: July 28, 2008, 06:11:31 PM »
If an Arab calls an American a "Baseball-capper" or a "stetsonian", would that be racist?





What do they call us?

Are they racist in some degree or not at all?

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #31 on: July 28, 2008, 08:35:42 PM »
<<I suggest that if you say something like "Abdul, you stupid raghead", this could be interpreted as racist rather clearly, as the intent is to insult. On the other hand, if we say. "Cheney did not predict the ability of the ragheads to rebel", then this is nort so much racist as a suggestion that Cheney thought of the aforementioned Sons of Ishmael to be incompetent subhumans, a view not necessarily shared by the author of the remark.>>

Exactly.  Thank you.

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #32 on: July 28, 2008, 08:57:46 PM »
Quote
I suggest that if you say something like "Abdul, you stupid raghead", this could be interpreted as racist rather clearly, as the intent is to insult. On the other hand, if we say. "Cheney did not predict the ability of the ragheads to rebel", then this is nort so much racist as a suggestion that Cheney thought of the aforementioned Sons of Ishmael to be incompetent subhumans, a view not necessarily shared by the author of the remark.

Except, since he has not quoted Cheney as being the one to use the term 'ragheads', the author of the remark is the one responsible for using the term, and if 'incompetent subhumans' is the meaning, then yes, it is a slur. Whether the 'author of the remark' agrees with that view or not, he is the one that brought it into the discussion, when there clearly was no reason to do so - other than to simply toss out a racist remark.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #33 on: July 28, 2008, 09:00:28 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the president to explain to us what the exit strategy is. ~ George W. Bush

About the quote: The future president said this in regard to Kosovo in April 1999



That is very cutting. Was Kosovo a success or a failure and did it include an exit stretegery?

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #34 on: July 28, 2008, 10:06:31 PM »
<<Whether the 'author of the remark' agrees with that view or not, he is the one that brought it into the discussion, when there clearly was no reason to do so - other than to simply toss out a racist remark.>>

Clearly, anyone with half a brain reading the remark would infer that the underestimation of their Arab opponents was due to both the stupidity and the racism of the U.S. military and their civilian bosses.  The "Who woulda thunk?" is a jibe at their stupidity and the "ragheads" is a jibe at their racism.

Next time, I'll draw a labelled diagram so that my slower-witted readers can follow the train of thought without blowing any fuses in their neural wiring.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #35 on: July 28, 2008, 11:28:23 PM »
Quote
Clearly, anyone with half a brain reading the remark would infer that the underestimation of their Arab opponents was due to both the stupidity and the racism of the U.S. military and their civilian bosses.  The "Who woulda thunk?" is a jibe at their stupidity and the "ragheads" is a jibe at their racism.

Next time, I'll draw a labelled diagram so that my slower-witted readers can follow the train of thought without blowing any fuses in their neural wiring.

Trouble is you have a history of derogatory remarks. From your contempt of the Japanese during WWII to your depiction of 4000 dead hillbillies in Iraq to youir depiction of arabs as ragheads. What's ironic is that it is an anti-semitic remark from a Semite.

Go figure.




hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2008, 11:39:58 PM »
Quote
Next time, I'll draw a labelled diagram so that my slower-witted readers can follow the train of thought without blowing any fuses in their neural wiring.

Next time you might find a way to say what you mean without resorting to racial or ethnic slurs.

"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

hnumpah

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2483
  • You have another think coming. Use it.
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2008, 11:59:45 PM »
Quote
That is very cutting.

Thank you. It was meant to be.

Quote
Was Kosovo a success or a failure...

That depends on your view of it. After all, the Serbs, Croats and Muslims still don't get along, and just recently they caught one of the top war criminals there who had been hiding out in public for 13 years. Kosovo's status was unresolved until 2007, and it did not declare independence until this year.

Quote
...and did it include an exit stretegery?

At the time, no. Which was why Bush made the comment. At the time, I'm sure he never envisioned a time when it would come back to bite him in the ass.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2008, 12:21:45 AM »
<<Trouble is you have a history of derogatory remarks. From your contempt of the Japanese during WWII to your depiction of 4000 dead hillbillies in Iraq to youir depiction of arabs as ragheads. >> 

I don't apologize for my remarks about either the Japs or the dead hillbillies.  Or if I do, that'll come at another time in another place.  I do not deny that racism may be an element in my deliberate use of the term "Jap" and I don't hide behind an excuse of irony for either of those two references.

The remark about the ragheads is so obviously ironic in context and so obviously non-racist in context that I really cannot understand how anyone could miss the obvious intent.  Assuming for the moment that you are correct that racism is behind both the "Japs" and the "dead hillbillies" references, both of whom (Japs and the U.S. military) I regularly excoriate in my posts, it's quite a stretch to conclude that there is a similar racist animus behind my use of "raghead" particularly when the group targeted by the alleged smear is one which (unlike the Japanese and the U.S. military) I have regularly stuck up for in most of my posts.

You might also want to ask yourself why I never claim that there is anything ironic in my remarks about Japs or dead hillbillies, yet would raise that claim in defence of my use of "raghead" in this thread.

Bottom line is that I didn't intend any racial disparagement by my ironic use of the term "raghead" in reference to the Iraqis, I believe it should be obvious to any intelligent reader of the post that the term was used ironically to depict the racism and ignorance of the U.S. military generally, and if anyone takes genuine offence at my use of the term "raghead" in this thread(as opposed to the fake indignation of both hnumpah and BT at something they know God-damn well is not racist) then I will immediately apologize to that person unconditionally.

<<What's ironic is that it is an anti-semitic remark from a Semite.>>

If the remark were truly racist, it would be as offensive coming from a Semite as from an Eskimo.  My racial origins have absolutely nothing to do with the offensiveness of the remark, the only REAL antisemitism here being your raising them in the first place.  There would be absolutely nothing "ironic" about the remarks, which are anti-Arab rather than antisemitic, coming from a Jew if they were racist.  Quite a lot of the anti-Arab hate propaganda today, unfortunately,  comes directly or indirectly from Jewish sources and there is nothing ironic about any of it. 

Antisemitism as you probably should know does not denote a general hostility against all Semites, be they Jews or Arabs.  Antisemitism describes a peculiar type of European agitation that began in the 19th century and was directed exclusively against Jews.  Antisemitism was a neologism born to describe those particular 19th century anti-Jewish movements.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2008, 12:32:50 AM by Michael Tee »

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2008, 01:06:06 AM »
Fact is you have made bigoted remarks in the past. No reason to believe that you would shy away from using a slur concerning arabs. You were the first to use the term raghead on this forum according to the search function. Not one RW fascist knuckle dragging poster on this board has even come close to using it. Ironic, isn't it.




Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2008, 01:25:13 AM »
I suppose that OUR right wing is composed of the sensitive sort , relitively speaking of course.

Michael Tee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12605
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2008, 01:36:15 AM »
<<Fact is you have made bigoted remarks in the past. >>

So what?  I never disowned any racist intent in them.  Never claimed they were ironic.  They weren't ironic.  THIS "racist" remark (raghead) I DO claim is ironic and moreover that any halfway intelligent individual reading the post would have to know it was meant ironically. 

<<No reason to believe that you would shy away from using a slur concerning arabs. >>

Ridiculous.  The reason is that the slurs I used were against people that I openly despised.  In addition to making the "slurs," I also made very substantial and specific allegations against them - - that the Japs were barbarians who massacred civilians and tortured their prisoners, that the dead hillbillies were more or less the same or at the very least had participated willingly in an obviously illegal war of aggression. 

The evidence to date is that I have not made any such derogatory remarks against the Arabs with any substance - - did not accuse them of all the stuff that you see others alleging against them.  I usually defended them.  So it would certainly raise an eyebrow if the people I defended and never attacked (unlike the Japs and the "dead hillbillies") were suddenly without any negative aspersions cast, made the target of my "racist slurs."  In fact, it would be incomprehensible. 

<<You were the first to use the term raghead on this forum according to the search function. >>

Sure - - ironically.  I bet if you pull out every one of those posts found in your search, they were all ironic.  Go ahead.  (I gotta say in passing, this is so typical of you racist rightwing Republican bullshit artists - - you take something totally out of context like my use of one single word as revealed by the search engine, and expect to bamboozle others into believing that the single word itself, taken out of context, signifies the exact opposite of what it was meant to signify in context.)  Why don't you post the entire message in which I used "raghead" before so we can all see what's so "racist" about it?

<<Not one RW fascist knuckle dragging poster on this board has even come close to using it. Ironic, isn't
it.>>

Nothing ironic about it.  It's the same phenomenon we noted in the Rise of the Dixiecrats post - - today's racists are savvy enough not to use the old racist rhetoric.  If or when you hear it today, it's usually being used ironically by liberals to mock the REAL attitudes of the closet racists who make up the Republican Party but are smart enough not to use the words that best mirror their real attitudes. 

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2008, 01:40:03 AM »
I suppose that OUR right wing is composed of the sensitive sort , relitively speaking of course.

We are the epitome of civility and tolerance.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16141
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2008, 01:42:42 AM »
Quote
  Why don't you post the entire message in which I used "raghead" before so we can all see what's so "racist" about it?

I did.

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=57.msg361#msg361

Your exact quote was faggot raghead.


Plane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26993
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: What? AP says we're WINNING in Iraq?
« Reply #44 on: July 29, 2008, 01:47:51 AM »
I suppose that OUR right wing is composed of the sensitive sort , relitively speaking of course.

We are the epitome of civility and tolerance.


  I suppose that Leftists are so confident in their virtues that they feel excused in the use of flagwords , since it is safe for everyone to assume that they do not mean them in any truely contemptuous way , except when useing them to dehumanise those who actually do deserve it.