Georgia conflict escalates as Russian tanks enter South Ossetia

[Amianthus]

Russian tanks have entered South Ossetia hours after Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned Georgia that its attack on South Ossetia will draw retaliation.
As Russian troops advanced towards the capital of Georgia's separatist region, Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, said "ethnic cleansing" had been reported in villages in South Ossetia amid a Georgian offensive to retake the breakaway region.

Mr Lavrov called on the West to reach "the right conclusions" over the conflict, saying the Georgian offensive had been made possible by Western military aid to Tbilisi.

"Now we see Georgia has found a use for these weapons and for the special forces that were trained with the help of international instructors," he said.

"I think our European and American colleagues ... should understand what is happening. And I hope very much that they will reach the right conclusions."

The military operation marks the first time Russian troops have taken action on foreign soil since the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989.

Georgia has warned that any involvement of Russian forces in the conflict would result in a state of war between the two countries.

The Russian military reported that ten Russians were killed and 30 injured during Georgian shelling of their barracks, but Georgian officials denied firing on Russian peacekeepers in the area during their offensive in South Ossetia.

Georgian troops had earlier launched a massive attack to regain control of breakaway South Ossetia, where officials said at least 15 people were killed and an unspecified number of people wounded.

Georgia v Russia: By numbers

	Georgia	Russia
Population	4.6 million	140 million
Army	18,000	400,000
Tanks	128	23,000
Fighter jets	9	1,736

The move by Russian troops followed a series of statements by Russian leaders pledging to protect Russian citizens in the region in the face of a massive Georgian military attack on South Ossetia.

Mr Putin, on a trip to Beijing to attend the Olympics opening, sharply criticised the Georgian attack and warned it will draw retaliatory actions. He spoke after meeting briefly with US President George W Bush in Beijing.

Mr Putin did not specify what kind of retaliatory action may follow, but Russia's Defence Ministry pledged to protect Russian citizens in the region. Most of the region's residents have Russian passports.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his security council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and the federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Mr Medvedev said in televised remarks. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots to go unpunished."

Russia's Defence Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure."

"Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its official website.

"We will protect our peacekeepers and Russian citizens," it said without elaboration.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili accused Russia of aggression, saying that Russian jets bombed several Georgian villages, wounding seven civilians. A Russian diplomat denied that Russian aircraft had bombed Georgian territory.
Original Article

[Amianthus]

A spokesperson for the Georgian government says that Georgian forces have downed two Russian fighter planes that were attacking Georgian territory. An earlier claim from Tblisi that a plane was shot down has meanwhile been denied by the Russian Defence Ministry in Moscow.

Heavy fighting between Georgia and its breakaway province of South Ossetia has left at least 15 people dead. Even though both sides agreed a ceasefire on Wednesday, they are now accusing each other of violating it.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili says that Russia, which supports South Ossetia in its bid for independence, has taken an active role in the fighting and that Russian planes have bombed two villages in his country. Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin says his country has been forced to respond to Georgian military actions in South Ossetia.

Although the United Nations Security Council has held an emergency debate on the situation, it was unable to reach an agreement on a call for the two sides to stop fighting.

South Ossetia broke away from Georgia in the early 1990s. Most of the region's inhabitants want to either join Russia or become independent. Georgia, however, is determined to retain its territorial integrity.
Original Article

[Amianthus]

By Jeffrey Stinson, USA TODAY
LONDON - Fighting broke out Friday between Russia and a strong U.S. ally in the region, the Democratic Republic of Georgia. The violence could significantly destabilize Russia's ties with the West - and even influence the actions of U.S. troops in Iraq. USA TODAY's London correspondent, Jeffrey Stinson, answers some questions about the conflict.

Q. What are Georgia and Russia fighting over?

A: Georgia launched a military strike on the province of South Ossetia, aiming to reclaim it after 16 years of semi-independence. In response, Russia sent tanks in. Moscow says Georgian forces had killed Russian peacekeepers there and were committing acts of "ethnic cleansing" of native Russians living there.

Q: Why does Moscow care what Georgia does in its own provinces?

A: Georgia, which borders Russia, is a former Soviet republic. It declared its independence in 1991 after the collapse of communism. Many of the 70,000 people in South Ossetia speak Russian and carry Russian passports. Relations between the two have been tense, as Moscow tries to reassert influence over nations that border it. Georgia has aligned itself with the West and wants to join NATO ? a desire the Bush administration supports.

Q: Why is this happening now?

A: Georgia insists it had no choice but to act after what it says are increasing attacks from separatists. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili claims Moscow took advantage of situation to "invade" his country while the world's attention was focused on the Olympics in Beijing.

Q: How bad could hostilities get?

A: It depends on how large a response Russia wants to muster. Russia has an active and equipped armed force of 1.02 million, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies of London. The institute numbers Georgia's active servicemen and women at 21,150.

Q: How have the United States and the rest of the world reacted?

A: The United States, NATO and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe have called for a halt in hostilities and for Georgia, Russia and South Ossetia to sit down and talk. The U.S. State Department says it supports Georgia's territorial integrity, while calling for an immediate cease-fire. The White House says President Bush and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin have talked about the situation while both are attending the Olympics.

Q: Is there a chance that the United States and the West could be drawn into a confrontation with Russia over this?

A: Georgia is not a member of NATO, so there are no obligations to come to its defense. Georgia so far has asked for diplomatic, not military, assistance from the West. The Pentagon says it has only 125 defense personnel and contractors in Georgia that provide military training for Georgian forces deployed in Iraq.

Q: Could hostilities here affect U.S. military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan?

A: Georgia's president said Friday he is bringing home the 2,000 troops it had stationed in Iraq. That is a significant blow to coalition forces because Georgia was the third-largest contributor of troops behind Britain and the U.S. Apart from that, direct U.S. military involvement seems unlikely. Although Georgia may look close to Iraq and Afghanistan, it has little in common. Like Russians, Georgians and Ossetians are largely Orthodox Christian.
Original Article

[Kramer]

Russian tanks have entered South Ossetia hours after Prime Minister Vladimir Putin warned Georgia that its attack on South Ossetia will draw retaliation.
As Russian troops advanced towards the capital of Georgia's separatist region, Sergei Lavrov, Russia's foreign minister, said "ethnic cleansing" had been reported in villages in South Ossetia amid a Georgian offensive to retake the breakaway region.

Mr Lavrov called on the West to reach "the right conclusions" over the conflict, saying the Georgian offensive had been made possible by Western military aid to Tbilisi.

"Now we see Georgia has found a use for these weapons and for the special forces that were trained with the help of international instructors," he said.

"I think our European and American colleagues ... should understand what is happening. And I hope very much that they will reach the right conclusions."

The military operation marks the first time Russian troops have taken action on foreign soil since the Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan in 1989.

Georgia has warned that any involvement of Russian forces in the conflict would result in a state of war between the two countries.

The Russian military reported that ten Russians were killed and 30 injured during Georgian shelling of their barracks, but Georgian officials denied firing on Russian peacekeepers in the area during their offensive in South Ossetia.

Georgian troops had earlier launched a massive attack to regain control of breakaway South Ossetia, where officials said at least 15 people were killed and an unspecified number of people wounded.

Georgia v Russia: By numbers

	Georgia	Russia
Population	4.6 million	140 million
Army	18,000	400,000
Tanks	128	23,000
Fighter jets	9	1,736

The move by Russian troops followed a series of statements by Russian leaders pledging to protect Russian citizens in the region in the face of a massive Georgian military attack on South Ossetia.

Mr Putin, on a trip to Beijing to attend the Olympics opening, sharply criticised the Georgian attack and warned it will draw retaliatory actions. He spoke after meeting briefly with US President George W Bush in Beijing.

Mr Putin did not specify what kind of retaliatory action may follow, but Russia's Defence Ministry pledged to protect Russian citizens in the region. Most of the region's residents have Russian passports.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his security council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and the federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect the lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Mr Medvedev said in televised remarks. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots to go unpunished."

Russia's Defence Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure."

"Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its official website.

"We will protect our peacekeepers and Russian citizens," it said without elaboration.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili accused Russia of aggression, saying that Russian jets bombed several Georgian villages, wounding seven civilians. A Russian diplomat denied that Russian aircraft had bombed Georgian territory.
Original Article

I have friends in Atlanta boy I hope they are OK.

[Michael Tee]

Not only are the Russians going to win this one, but they will remember who armed their enemies, and draw the appropriate conclusions when certain other countries ask them for weapons.

[Plane]

the “prison of nations”

http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/introduction.shtml

[Michael Tee]

Again, plane, your basic ignorance of 20th century Europe has led you into some pretty dubious waters.  Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia were all allies of Nazi Germany and even today are pretty unrepentant about it.  They were virulently anti-Semitic as well, to the point where the Nazis entrusted the Holocaust itself - - the physical extermination of the Jews - - to the local fascist collaborators so they wouldn't have to get their own hands dirty.  The Estonians recently got into a little bit of shit through commemorative stamps they issued to celebrate the heroics of their Nazi armed forces in WWII, when the Air Force stamp showed Estonian planes adorned with swastikas, which they refused to change in the face of international protest.

Captive Republics was the name the Nazi collaborators gave the three countries, occupied by the Red Army at the conclusion of WWII.  That's where this whole "Prison of Nations" bullshit arose - - tiny enslaved Latvia, tiny enslaved Estonia, tiny enslaved Lithuania.  In order to excuse their enthusiasm for Hitler and his racial theories and their role in the Holocaust, they invented a role for themselves which they sold to gullible anti-Soviet Cold War crusaders in the U.S. - - they really hated Hitler and Germany, but they had to join him to defend themselves against the "evil" Communists. 

These "freedom loving captives" of the "evil" Soviet Russians perpetrated what is probably the only filmed mass killing of Jews from the entire war - - the Lithuanians armed their militia including recently released convicts with metal bars and German Army photographers captured these guys on films, chasing Jews out of their homes and beating them to death in the streets with the metal bars.  Some of the shots centred on a 12-year-old girl who had been stripped, raped and then beaten to death with the others.  The Germans loved it because they could say, "See?  It isn't just us who hate the Jews, everyone hates them, here it was the Lithuanians themselves who turned on them."  It was a way of showing that mass killings of Jews were not the fault of the "civilized" Germans, but the wild local populations of "untermenschen" who were much more barbaric than Germans.

When these fucking ass-holes have the nerve to protest against their "enslavement" by Soviet Russia, most Jews and others aware of the local history know better.  It's a shame to see these fascist bastards making headway with Americans who know absolutely nothing of the local history but are slaves to their own knee-jerk anti-communism.

[Plane]

the “prison of nations”

My basic ignorance of 20th century Europe , eh?

the “prison of nations”
Quotes who?

http://trotsky.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/s+w/ch01.htm

"... and the Slays who are oppressed by her ally Austria undoubtedly enjoy far more freedom than those in tsarist Russia, that real “prison of nations”. But Germany is fighting not for the liberation, but for the oppression of nations. It is not the business of Socialists to help the younger and stronger robber (Germany) to rob the older and overgorged robbers. Socialists must take advantage of the struggle between the robbers to overthrow them all."

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/?p=613

I’m of the impression that the “prison of nations” term is generally credited to having been coined by Lenin, as per his characterization of Imperial Russia.

Oh this one is extreme...http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//TEXT+CRE+20050512+ITEM-025+DOC+XML+V0//EN

[Michael Tee]

Well, thanks for straightening me out on the origin of the phrase, but the substance of my post is still correct at least as regards the three Baltic Republics.  They're a bunch of defeated Nazi satellites who out-did the Nazis themselves in the savagery of their attacks on the Jews.  Whatever happened to them after the war wasn't harsh enough, as far as I'm concerned.  Any criticism they have of the U.S.S.R. is automatically null and void.  It's like the justly condemned cursing their executioners, although in their case, they didn't even have an executioner.

[Plane]

Well, thanks for straightening me out on the origin of the phrase, but the substance of my post is still correct at least as regards the three Baltic Republics.  They're a bunch of defeated Nazi satellites who out-did the Nazis themselves in the savagery of their attacks on the Jews.  Whatever happened to them after the war wasn't harsh enough, as far as I'm concerned.  Any criticism they have of the U.S.S.R. is automatically null and void.  It's like the justly condemned cursing their executioners, although in their case, they didn't even have an executioner.

Although Lenin criticised the Czar for imperialisticly captureing nations , when he had the chance to release them he didn't.

Would these small nations have been so bad if they were independant countrys ? We can never know , but the governments of these small "republics" were manned with Russians when the Germans came.


By the way ,what is the Ethnic origin of Stalin?

[Michael Tee]

Stalin was a Georgian, his name was originally Dlugashvilli.

[Plane]

Stalin was a Georgian, his name was originally Dlugashvilli.

I didn't know the Dlugashvilli part.

[Plane]

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/world/story/47174.html

United States holds little leverage over Russia in Georgia conflict