Author Topic: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?  (Read 5449 times)

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fatman

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2008, 12:26:45 AM »
I liked Barry Corbin (later he was Maurice Minniefield on Northern Exposure, another of my favorite shows) in that movie.

sirs

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2008, 12:28:34 AM »
ditto
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2008, 12:54:03 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_Poland_(1939)

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/poland.htm


Hmmm....

Didn't the Natzi government complain about mistreatment of Ethnic Germans in the run  up to invadeing Poland?

Was this claim widely beleived?

Michael Tee

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2008, 12:58:12 AM »
<<This is worse than the Prague spring or the Cuban Missle crisis?>>

In terms of massive disrespect for a sitting U.S. President?  Absolutely.  I don't recall anything like this anytime.  Ever.  Not even close.

<<I think we have exactly the President we need to comit massive retaliation , if that is the decision reached.>>

Never happen.  Your leaders are too scared of a response.  Russia could survive a hundred bombs on its territory, you'd cave in if five of them hit yours.

<<But it will take weeks to gather , the Russians were obviously prepared well to attack , they must have been prepareing for weeks or months>>

U.S. has no excuse not to be prepared, if they are going to intervene, the Georgians HAD to have cleared this attack with Washington before they started.

<<are they also prepared to attack elesewhere?>>

We don't talk much anymore.  They probably knew what the Georgians and the CIA planned to do, so they were prepared.  If the CIA is cooking up any more "surprises" like that, I'm reasonably sure they'll be equally prepared.  They have good intelligence.

<<This might be a very good time to ask all of the rest of the Republics south of Russia to join Nato.>>

I think this is exactly what the Russians are not prepared to permit.  And Georgia is going to be a very good lesson for them not to even think about it.

Plane

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2008, 01:12:34 AM »
I don't think that the Russians are innocent , there have been a lot of provacations for what the Georgians did.

But that the Russians are willing to attack a country with less than a twentyeth of their Military strength doesn't prove that they are ready to fight on their whole European border, such a war would not need to take any Russian territory , it would break their economy faster if it did not.

The Russian Economy is certainly more robust than the Soviet Economy was , but it is still their vunerable point.


Can we have a serious war in Europe , that does not go Atomic?


That is a tough question to me, I wonder why there arn't any old Soviet Nuke wepons in Georgia or the Uckrane. Or in a vunerable storage in Russia itself. If a Hydrogen bomb went off anywhere in Russia the Russian economy would tank from lack of confidence even if the casualtys were zero. They might blame us for their problems , but their mistreatment of their neighbors isn't because we told them to mistreat their neighbors.


If they want another Cold war , they ought to remember how miserable and long the origional one was . Do they really need to be such xenophobes?

Michael Tee

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2008, 01:35:15 AM »
<<I don't think that the Russians are innocent , there have been a lot of provacations for what the Georgians did.>>

If there were a lot, then you must be able to name just one.

<<But that the Russians are willing to attack a country with less than a twentyeth of their Military strength doesn't prove that they are ready to fight on their whole European border>>

You would first have to explain why your European allies, who depend on Russian energy, would be so anxious to be drawn into a Russian war that was caused only by the U.S. creating its own satellite regime in Georgia or other parts of the Former Soviet Union.  You would also have to explain to your Polish ally how you could bring it back to life after Russia nuked it.

I would also be interested in seeing how you could take on a new war with Russia when you're five trillion in the hole as a result of Iraq.

<<such a war would not need to take any Russian territory>>

LMFAO.  Somebody has to learn from Hitler so it won't have been ALL wasted.   That's even better.  DON'T take their territory, because they need it to mass their land forces closer to your East European NATO partners.  If you are planning to use nukes, (1) I suggest you don't tell your European allies about it until after the fact and (2) better pull all your troops out of the host countries before the counter-strike arrives.

<<it would break their economy faster if it did not.>>

You'll break their economy faster by NOT taking their land?  Right, and you'll kill more of them by NOT shooting at them.

<<The Russian Economy is certainly more robust than the Soviet Economy was , but it is still their vunerable point.>>

Did I hear that right?  The economy is WHOSE vulnerable point?

<<Can we have a serious war in Europe , that does not go Atomic?>>

Your European allies would never permit a nuclear war in their backyard.  You must be smoking some very powerful weed.  The first American nuke would dissolve the NATO alliance right then and there.  Most of your Western European allies have no interest in provoking a nuclear counterstrike from the Russians that they could never withstand.  Moreover, there is absolutely nothing in such a conflict for them.  Don't flatter yourself that they are ready to commit suicide for you.

Plane

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2008, 01:46:03 AM »
If Europe wants to become the property of a Russian Oligarchy , then it is time to become Isolationist and allow the Europeans to give themselves to the Russians , who know much more about capturing a territory than administering it to the benefit of anyone (even themselves).

Napoleon learned that Russians are easy to push back , but hard to fight deep in their territory , since then the Aircraft has been invented and it isn't necessary to be there to destroy something.

Hitler wanted all that land , we do not.

Yes the Russian economy would be easier to choke off than any other feature of their situation , you are wrong about the five trillion cost of Iraq , and you aren't right about any thing else either.


By the way , Russia is not Communist anymore , it is sort of an oligarchy and is heading towards Imperialism , you still like them?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 10:44:42 PM by Plane »

Plane

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2008, 02:53:57 AM »
<<I don't think that the Russians are innocent , there have been a lot of provacations for what the Georgians did.>>

If there were a lot, then you must be able to name just one.



Well the accusation is that they arm and assist the secessionists , it would be as if they armed and paid the KKK here. This accusation would be hard to prove and hard to disprove , but it doesn't seem unlikely.

At least they haven't poisoned the leaders yet as they did in the Ucrane and Chechnia .


But when Putin says tht he will defend the dignity of Russians anywhere , I would like you to imagine President Bush saying that and your reaction on an occasion that he would.Especially since in this context he seems to mean that he will defend this dignity to the death of other races.





http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/chechen-leader-poisoned-in-runup-to-presidential-poll-581542.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/12/16/world/main661448.shtml

http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jan/06/world/fg-georgia6

BT

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2008, 03:51:57 AM »
Russia wants to control the pipelines coming out of Georgia.

It also wants to reign in the Ukraine.

Europe is fed by those pipelines.

And in the end it IS about Oil.

And history shows people will go to war over that.

See Japan.




Amianthus

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2008, 08:22:21 AM »
JUST caught the classic movie Wargames, with Matthew Broderick. GREAT flick ;8)

I saw the sequel over the weekend. "Wargames: The Dead Code"
« Last Edit: August 14, 2008, 08:36:36 AM by Amianthus »
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Knutey

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2008, 10:26:01 AM »
Russia wants to control the pipelines coming out of Georgia.

It also wants to reign in the Ukraine.

Europe is fed by those pipelines.

And in the end it IS about Oil.

And history shows people will go to war over that.

See Japan.





How about US in Iraq #2 . Except we had an idiot in charge that fucked it all up.

sirs

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2008, 11:03:32 AM »
JUST caught the classic movie Wargames, with Matthew Broderick. GREAT flick ;8)

I saw the sequel over the weekend. "Wargames: The Dead Code"

There was a sequal?  As good as the original?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2008, 01:28:49 PM »
There was a sequal?  As good as the original?

No, but it wasn't too bad. WOPR (Joshua) made an appearance near the end.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

sirs

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2008, 01:47:00 PM »
I'll endeavor to check it out.  Thanks for the head's-up, Ami
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: You Think Maybe the Russians are a Little Pissed Off?
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2008, 02:30:17 PM »
"Except we had an idiot in charge that fucked it all up"

LOL
this guy is still spouting the old outdated talking points
it's basically over dude and we won
thats why it's not even the front burner issue anymore in this election, even with democrats
and by the way when it was a front burner issue back in 2004
President Bush won and got more votes than any president in US history.

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987