So it's Biden

[Cynthia]

I think that becomeing a Principal is what happens to bad valedictorians .

One who rises to her/his level of incompetence is key here, Plane.

Sadly, we are not working for quality principals as we once were.

That's another reason why our schools are failing.

But, the main issue is the testing situation. We are testing kids and posting the scores up in the hallways, offices, newpapers etc without a real alignment to what counts. . . curriculum driving instruction and assessments that show growth with full fidelity and integrity.

[BT]

I understand your point, I do, but I still maintain that none of these issues occured before the NCLB act was on the books.

Sure they were, but before NCLB, accountability with consequences was minimum and the need to scrutinize every link in the chain was not not done.

You say the problem at your school is not the teachers but the principal. NCLB helped point out her deficiencies. The question is, now, who will have the courage to fix that particular problem?

I have no problem with your statement that NCLB may need tweaking. I do have a problem with NCLB being cast as the boogieman, when many times we have found that a problem described is not part of the act. NCLB doesn't say that NM students should be tested in February. That is on the state and local school boards. NCLB doesn't choose the texts or curriculum, again that is set at a more local level. Get my point?

[Cynthia]

I understand your point, I do, but I still maintain that none of these issues occured before the NCLB act was on the books.

Sure they were, but before NCLB, accountability with consequences was minimum and the need to scrutinize every link in the chain was not not done.

You say the problem at your school is not the teachers but the principal. NCLB helped point out her deficiencies. The question is, now, who will have the courage to fix that particular problem?

I have no problem with your statement that NCLB may need tweaking. I do have a problem with NCLB being cast as the boogieman, when many times we have found that a problem described is not part of the act. NCLB doesn't say that NM students should be tested in February. That is on the state and local school boards. NCLB doesn't choose the texts or curriculum, again that is set at a more local level. Get my point?

Yes, Bill, I do get your point. We have pushed the testing up to April this year...btw.

So, yes, I agree. The only logical element in all of this mess has been the NCLB ACT, however. So, I have to say that that tweaking you agree is needed is in some way behind the issue. I can't prove that per item and line, but when Reagan's Nation at Risk was on the docket, we were right behind it as educators in favor and supportive. Why is this particular 'act' so difficult to meet at it's point of perfection? Why are we not making the grade, when we were back in the 80's and children were given a full rounded educaiton-----music/art/ social studies/science etc. ?
NOw, we are placed in a position where the 3 R'S are all we should teach. That wasn't the norm for the past 25 years of my career, BT. It simply was not.

So, ok...so the NCLB has a heart. I does. But, there is something that is so fundamentally wrong with the regulations which trickle down through the states and into our classrooms ---that I have to take issue with.

So, I wonder, I ask, I consider and I hope for an answer. I do not sit on the platform of rhetoric politically...preaching that we are not up to par...thus we as teachers are to blame. But, come on, you have said teachers are to blame many a time on this board. You have.

The system is changing. Let's say that. Not necessarily broken---changing. Private Charter schools are failing left and right. There is no quick and correct fix.

The idea that we should not leave a child behind is an awesome concept and critical to the future of this nation. But, we can not allow for such RULES AND REGS to set us up. Do you know what I mean.

I feel as though through the NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT that we have been 'set up'. Set up to prove we are NO DAMN GOOD. My god, that was never a reality in teh 80's of even the 90's. At least there was a push for improvement under Reagan.

Now, there is a mandate that is crushing the very classroom climate and element that is 'education'.
I do not want to side with a "party" on this issue, I really do not. I want, however to understand more and find a truth. What can the NCLB act do to alter the course of such a massive flood of failure driven storms....when they were never broken to begin with?

Obama is a liberal, pure and simple. Who the hell knows what he will do for this nation. It's a crazy system we vote in. imo.
We want change change change...but we want change at the cost of progress sometimes. Logic and common sense is key to teaching, they say.
So, why isn't electing a leader based on such an ideal?
We must stop thinking we are part of the founding fathers of yesteryear. We must not. We are the people, however. The people who speak out and cry out for what is right.

I find politics to be a sort of changing of sheets syndrome. Crisp new sheets, thread of 400+...ahhhh, to lie in that bed. But....at what cost. Sometimes a bed of struggle is just as comforting in the end.

We are a spoiled nation. We do not want to bitch or complain, lest we get railroaded and attacked by those who 'KNOW'. WHo really knows ??

The brush of life that is the working class folk. That's who.

Children need a voice. The elete and the rich can move and pamper their children as long as the thread is made of cotton, but the child who has no breakfast in the morning deserves more.

Can Obama give that to the child? Something in me says NO... quite honestly. I don't trust him. Can't say why, but I want folks to hear the people on my level...and listen carefully to what is key..
The act that has demanded we improve something that was really never broken in the first place.....


is wrong. I see and live it daily...,and no, it was not this way before, BT. There was so much more in terms of richness in education before Bush came on board.

I do the math, but I understand that times have changed.

There is hope for the children yet. I know it.

[BT]

Somehow i get the feeling that if half as much energy was put into Leaving No Child Behind than the energy that is expended protecting turf, then the children would prosper.

Music programs have been supported by booster groups for decades, because tax payers fight every dime included in a millage rate, not because of some bureaucratic rule coming out of DC in 2002. The education system is broken at the local level, that is why some districts do better than others. All NCLB does is quantify the failure and sets consequences for failure to improve.

Vote for Obama if it will give you comfort, i doubt he will fix your schools because in the end schools are a local institution, but also vote for school board members who will fund the district adequately.

[Cynthia]

Somehow i get the feeling that if half as much energy was put into Leaving No Child Behind than the energy that is expended protecting turf, then the children would prosper.

Music programs have been supported by booster groups for decades, because tax payers fight every dime included in a millage rate, not because of some bureaucratic rule coming out of DC in 2002. The education system is broken at the local level, that is why some districts do better than others. All NCLB does is quantify the failure and sets consequences for failure to improve.

Vote for Obama if it will give you comfort, i doubt he will fix your schools because in the end schools are a local institution, but also vote for school board members who will fund the district adequately.

Well, BT, let's say this; the local arenas are very very weak. This is true. But they were weak way back before the FED took over. The NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND ACT needs to find a place where it can thrive. I believe that it has a good heart, this is true. But, the push from the arm of the NCLB act has only pressed the muscle of teh local states into a sprain requiring a splint--if not a cast.

I want for the best. I wish for the best. I witness the logical worst of sorts and I maintain that the NCLB act is partially to blame. There's nothing wrong with that assessment. Who among us does not want growth for the kids?

Looking back, I see how we were at least on a track within the state/local venue...we were not broken then.

So, logically something '*else* has crawled into bed with the status quo...the states are once were. The old Movie; The Way we Were? ha.

Ok, kidding aside...but I believe that if we had been redirected as educators to focus on standards that, btw, have always been there. If we had been redirected to focus on such a starting place for lift off.....without the punitive reactionary whips to bust our assess, there would have been a step in the right direction.

Instead...we were given mandates and consequences without the room for growth or a chance to improve.

I realize that you do not want to let go of the idea that the NCLB act is wrong or in need of its own improvement, but I do believe it is. There's nothing wrong with that. I have maintained from teh getgo taht there is something very wrong here....There's something happenin' here" Crosby Stills and Nash said it best.....

But, we will not hear that tune for years to come. That's why I say,please trust me on this one, as a veteran teacher who has taught in the same system for 33 years. It's NOT just a state issue, BT. It simply is not.

goodnite for now....I am very tired, have to wake up early. So pardon any typos.


Cindy

[BT]

When did the schools start declining?

60's ?

70's ?

80's ?

90's ?

00's ?

What else was going on that may have added to the decline?

[sirs]

Hmmmm.........................interesting.

You know, Sirs, it is indeed interesting.  Frankly,  I do not mean to be negative about my principal. She is a lovely lady, really.

That wasn't at all what I found interesting, Cynthia.  I was fascinated at the very lengthy, albeit vague, contined condemnations of NCLB and the Fed, but when asked for a very specific answer, to a very specific question, you ran from it as fast as you could.  1st citing it apparently being "above your pay grade", then saddled it at the feet of Obama & Biden, still being unable to demonstrate what THEIR specific answer would be either.

Very interesting, as well as eye opening

[Cynthia]

Hmmmm.........................interesting.

You know, Sirs, it is indeed interesting.  Frankly,  I do not mean to be negative about my principal. She is a lovely lady, really.

That wasn't at all what I found interesting, Cynthia.  I was fascinated at the very lengthy, albeit vague, contined condemnations of NCLB and the Fed, but when asked for a very specific answer, to a very specific question, you ran from it as fast as you could.  1st citing it apparently being "above your pay grade", then saddled it at the feet of Obama & Biden, still being unable to demonstrate what THEIR specific answer would be either.

Very interesting, as well as eye opening

Ok well then....geezzz... I disagree with your take on what I have to say. But,then again you are not one I find worthy to post against anymore. So, I'll refrain from even reading your posts. You are a jerk. Stick to grinding others in the fashion you are so very good at.

"D'oh" Bzzzzz...wrong.....you're an idiot.

[Cynthia]

When did the schools start declining?

60's ?

70's ?

80's ?

90's ?

00's ?

What else was going on that may have added to the decline?

The programs that are in place currently are good ones, don't get me wrong. But, we are not provided enough support in our district for training, the issue of the low teacher pupil ratio, the lack of materials provided a given school for programs that are a direct response to the demands made from the NCLB. I wonder if Biden and Obama are more aware of the issue ofmoney than anyone else. I do not have such knowledge. I wish I could tell you why the act isn't funded...but I trust that they know.

I can say that I do see what we are lacking in terms of children. We can't give them a full education as we once did. We are forced to read scripted programs for 90 minutes blocks and there remains little time for other crucial subject areas....social studies, science, art and music.  IN the 70's we had it all! I do know that.

So, if the gov. wants to show points/scores at the risk of the valuable education that is being ripped out of the heads of the youngsters, then they will have to witness a generation of individuals who are not getting enough...but by damnthose scores in the reading writing and math will zoom...yeah right.

The three R's? We're talking about a system over a hundred years old. Talk about going backwards.

[BT]

What happened in the 70's that started the downward spiral?

[_JS]

What happened in the 70's that started the downward spiral?

White flight.

[sirs]

I was fascinated at the very lengthy, albeit vague, continued condemnations of NCLB and the Fed, but when asked for a very specific answer, to a very specific question, you ran from it as fast as you could.  1st citing it apparently as being "above your pay grade", then saddled it at the feet of Obama & Biden, still being unable to demonstrate what THEIR specific answer would be either.

Ok well then....geezzz... I disagree with your take on what I have to say. But,then again you are not one I find worthy to post against anymore. So, I'll refrain from even reading your posts. You are a jerk. Stick to grinding others in the fashion you are so very good at.  "D'oh" Bzzzzz...wrong.....you're an idiot.

And despite the inability to remain civil, while I endeavored to simply try and get an answer from you, STILL unable to provide a simple coherent answer to a simple math question.     Whatever you say Miss Cynthia, but you do realize how empty the accusation is now, regarding NCLB, or Public Education for that matter, as being some grossly "underfunded" program   

[Christians4LessGvt]

"White flight"

do you blame them?

[BT]

White flight.

Poor performance in school is a racial thing?

If it is a money thing , don't white schools and minority schools receive the same funding within a district?

[Amianthus]

If it is a money thing , don't white schools and minority schools receive the same funding within a district?

Not necessarily. In Maryland (the last place I really kept up with it) the minority schools tended to receive higher funding. At the time (2002 or 2003), Baltimore City schools (mostly minority) received around $9,400 / per pupil each year. Baltimore County schools (mostly white / asian) received around $7,500 / per pupil each year. The city schools got a "boost" from the state to their funding, even though the county had more property tax receipts.